Verge

Siiiiiigh

Wow, awful.

I think Jordan is a little more dynamic and you can use him in the slot, outside, wherever. I like his growth every year, and I think the sky is the limit for him. Freiermuth is more of a prototypical guy, and there is nothing wrong with that, it's just a matter of preference I guess. Plus you have to factor in the injuries and his lack of growth compared to Jordan.

Could that be possibly because Jones threw him the ball 57 more times than Tua did? lol This doesn't really factor into scouting, there isn't a NFL person alive who thinks Mac Jones as a better prospect than Tua.

I don't make them out to be "concerns" it's just what I see on tape and I take the note. I don't have a personal vendetta against the guy or anything lol

You are making me rewatch tape so I am mad at you but here we go lol I will evaluate every throw that goes past 3 yards initially. At 1:30 is a genuinely impressive play, he recognizes pressure, escapes, and understands where his outside receiver is and nails him. At 1:45 he hesitates his read and hangs it up for what would absolutely be a pick in the NFL and get his receiver killed, the velocity just was not there. At 2:45 he hits a comeback on a receiver sprinting back towards the ball, it's fine nothing to really take away, could have left the receiver with more momentum I guess. At 3:00 he throws it up in the general direction of the endzone and there is no one within 10 yards of his receiver. Good placement for what it is, you just can't really take anything from it. At 4:30 throws it low and outside his receivers route, receiver has to break and make a play by diving to save an interception, would be a pick at the NFL level as the DB should have broke on the ball. At 4:40 nice RPO where LBs bite leaving his receiver in man on a quick slant, receiver breaks it to the house. At 6:00 he hits his receiver on a 10 yard come back, good play design that leads his receiver in man and Mac Jones puts it where it needs to be. At 6:20 hard to say if it was a miscommunication or what, but ultimately inaccurate pass on 3rd down, not sure his receiver ever had a chance at it. At 6:40 gets pressure in his face and lobs it up for his receiver in traffic, great play by his receiver who was open, but that stuff would get his receiver killed in the NFL, or it is a pick. Should have been more of a line drive throw, but he could not get the pass out cleanly hard to tell if hit directly effected throw or the pressure itself but I believe it was just the pressure. At the end of the day the play gets made so whatever. At 7:50 ball is batted down at the LOS At 8:10 nice RPO, all the LBs bite, he hits his wide open receiver, receiver takes it 50 yards. (you might notice a pattern) At 9:45 he has a really nice ball outside on a rollout, nails his receiver with good timing. Excellent throw. At 10:15 he hits a wide open receiver, nice soft pass. At 10:40 ball is batted at the LOS At 10:50 he hits an underneath pass to his wide open receiver. Good quick recognition. At 11:20 he nails a soft pass to the outside on a comeback, his receiver drops it. So out of that entire game what are you as a scout supposed to come away with exactly? Yeah he had what? Two passes where you are saying "Yeah that was pretty good" but you also have two passes where you go "Oh you can't throw that ball". Mac Jones is as hard to evaluate as anyone, especially considering where he gets chunks plays from. Maybe bad game wasn't the way to put it, but it's a bad game to try and evaluate, and that is against of of the nations best teams.

Very very true

I don't disagree with you, but there is a difference in how the read is processed and how the ball gets there. A NFL throw is a NFL throw 100/100 times without a doubt.

This is even without mentioning that teams had to constantly respect the run game, and he was always in a position to know where he was going to go with the ball 90% of the time. This will never happen at the next level, and you are creating unrealistic expectations for a guy who has literally never been asked to do any of it.

He had finished up his degree and was considering moving out of the business yes, but opted to stay when he got a promotion with in the organization. I try not to give up too much information about him in this day and age of technology.

What's funny to me about Mac Jones is that last year people ripped Justin Herbert apart for having so many plays that were just dinks dunks and screens, where as that is about 80% of Mac Jones' game. The difference being that Mac Jones has none of the immense physical talent that Hebert had, and I have yet to see a game where Mac Jones put the game on his shoulders and carried the team, he never had to do it point blank period. He is very frustrating to watch on film due to how wide open his receivers constantly are, how much protection he gets, how the talent around him consistently gets chunk plays off of his constant screens and dump offs. Every now and then you see a NFL throw from him, his deep ball placement is quite good at times, but it is so sketchy and hard to find. There is not the physical tools needed to be able to guide a NFL team to success, there just isn't. At the end of the day he can process what is in front of him and dump it to playmakers, if that is what you want in a QB that is totally fine, and it can work in the NFL, but are you really going to invest a 1st round pick in something that you can get from a Andry Dalton, Nick Foles, etc etc etc? Seems highly unlikely to me. You are taking just as much risk in Mac Jones as you are in a Trey Lance with none of the upside, sure you get some stability in basic football intelligence and ball placement, but that doesn't really win by itself anymore. So is Mac Jones a top 50 player? Not really, no. Is he someone you can draft and put on a team with lots of talent and have him spread it to those playmakers? Yep, but it is not sustainable in the slightest and takes about two games of tape to figure you out.

Indeed.

I watched a loooot of UNC RB tape. That dude is Kamara 2.0

I'm like this close to dropping him below Mond. He has some really bad tape, and is hard as hell to evaluate. His ND game is what I'm watching literally right now and it is just...not good?

Right

This is based on my grades when I was scouting them, as in as they entered the draft. I flip flopped all year between Herbert and Tua. Most of the year Herbert was my locked in #1 overall pick, but Burrow kind of flipped all that on it's head. I ultimately decided on Tua over Hebert by the slightest of margins just because of release time and lack of questions about offensive design. I had a serious draft crush on Herbert though.

Nah.

Hi there! This will be my updated draft thread, where I will keep my position rankings, top 50-100 players, rumors, etc etc I will update this constantly as we get closer to the draft and will post all rumors I hear within this thread to make it easier for you. With that being said I will start this thread with my updated top 50 separated by tiers and asterisks next to players the Panthers should/might target. Top 50 players: 1. Trevor Lawrence, QB, CLE (Tier seperation) 2. Zach Wilson, QB, BYU* 3. Kyle Pitts, TE, FLO* 4. Penei Sewell, T, ORE* 5. Ja'Marr Chase, WR, LSU 6. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, OLB/ILB, ND* 7. Jaylen Waddle, WR, ALA 8. Rashawn Slater, T/G, NW * 9. Caleb Farley, CB, VT* 10. Micah Parsons, OLB/ILB, PST* (Tier separation) 11. Alijah Vera-Tucker, T/G, USC * 12. Kwity Paye, DE/DT, MICH 13. Jaycee Horn, CB, SC* 14. Trey Lance, QB, NDSU * 15. Justin Fields, QB, OHST* 16. Devonta Smith, WR, ALA (Tier separation) 17. Jaelan Phillips, DE, Miami 18. Patrick Surtain, CB, ALA* 19. Christian Darrisaw, T, VT * 20. Carlos Basham, EDGE, WF 21. Travis Etienne, RB, CLE 22. Zaven Collins, EDGE, TUL 23. Christian Barmore, DT, ALA 24. Azeez Ojulari, EDGE, GEO 25. Najee Harris, RB, ALA 26. Alex Leatherwood, T, ALA* 27. Tyson Campbell, CB, GEO* 28. Javonte Williams, RB, UNC 29. Jamin Davis, LB, KEN* (Tier seperation) 30. Kadarious Toney, WR/RB, FLO 31. Gregory Rousseau, EDGE, MIA 32. Kenny Gainwell, RB, MEM 33. Jalen Mayfield, OT, MIC* 34. Greg Newsome, CB, NW* 35. Jevon Holland, S, ORE* 36. Brevin Jordan, TE, MIA * 37. Trevon Moehrig, S, TCU* 38. Nick Bolton, LB, MIZZ* 39. Jackson Carman, OT/G, CLE* 40. Rondale Moore, WR, PUR 41. Trey Hill, C, GEO* 42. Jay Tufele, DT, USC (Tier seperation) 43. Marvin Wilson, DT, FST 44. Samuel Cosmi, OT, TEX * 45. Wyatt Davis, G, OHST* 46. Teven Jenkins, OT, OKST* 47. Trey Smith, G, TEN * 48. Tyree Gillespie, S, MIZZ* 49. Marquez Stevenson, WR, HOU 50. Michael Carter, RB, UNC Also, since I was asked how I would rank this QB class compared to the last: 1. Trevor Lawrence 2. Joe Burrow 3. Zach Wilson 4. Tua Tagovailoa 5. Justin Herbert 6. Trey Lance 7. Justin Fields 8. Mac Jones 9. Kellen Mond 10. Jordan Love Verge's new top 5 at each position as of 3/20: QBs: 1. Trevor Lawrence, QB, CLE 2. Zach Wilson, QB, BYU 3. Justin Fields, QB, OHST 4. Trey Lance, QB, NDSU 5. Kellen Mond, QB, TAM RBs: 1. Travis Etienne, RB, CLE 2. Najee Harris, RB, ALA 3. Javonte Williams, RB, UNC 4. Kenny Gainwell, RB, MEM 5. Trey Sermon, RB, OHST WRs: 1. JaMarr Chase, WR, LSU 2. Jaylen Waddle, WR, ALA 3. Devonta Smith, WR, ALA 4. Kadarius Toney, WR, FLO 5. Rondale Moore, WR, PUR TEs: 1-5. Kyle Pitts, TE/WR, FLO 2. Brevin Jordan, TE, MIA 3. Pat Freiermuth, TE, PEN 4. Hunter Long, TE, BC 5. Tre McKitty, TE, GEO OT: 1. Penei Sewell, OT, ORE 2. Christian Darrisaw, OT, VT 3. Alex Leatherwood, OT, ALA 4. Jalen Mayfield, OT, MICH 5. Alijah Vera-Tucker, OT/G, USC Interior O-line: 1. Rashawn Slater, OT/G/C, NW 2. Alijah Vera-Tucker, OT/G, USC 3. Landon Dickerson, C/G, ALA 4. Wyatt Davis, G, OHST 5. Trey Smith, G, TEN (depending on medicals) Edge: 1. Jaelan Philips, DE, MIA 2. Kwity Paye, DE, MICH 3. Gregory Rousseau, DE, MIA 4. Zaven Collins, EDGE, TUL 5. Azeez Ojulari, EDGE, GEO Defensive Tackle: 1. Christian Barmore, DT, ALA 2. Levi Onwuzurike, DT, WAS 3. Jay Tufele, DT, USC 4. Daviyon Nixon, DT, IOW 5. Marvin Wilson, DT, FST LB: 1. Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah, OLB/ILB/S, ND 2. Micah Parsons, ILB/OLB, PEN 3. Jamin Davis, ILB/OLB, KEN 4. Nick Bolton, ILB/OLB, MIZZ 5. Jabril Cox, ILB/OLB, LSU S: 1. Jevon Holland, S, ORE 2. Trevon Moehrig, S, TCU 3. Tyree Gillespie, S, MIZZ 4. Richie Grant, S, CF 5. Hamsah Nasirildeen, S, FLST CB: 1. Jaycee Horn, CB, SC 2. Patrick Surtain II., CB, ALA 3. Caleb Farley, CB, VT 4. Tyson Campbell, CB, GEO 5. Kelvin Joseph, CB, KEN

He kind of looks like a butthole so yeah.

I wish La Canfora would get out of my DMs.

Yeah probably not.

I am in the minority here, but I don't really think Trey Lance will need to sit. He would certainly walk out day 1 better than Teddy.

He certainly helped himself with his pro day. I have all the confidence in the world in Lance.

Good catch.