emhoward

Bryce may or may not be a bust, but I think firing Reich was the right move. Their were several things independent of Bryce or close to independent that was a cause for concern. The regression of the Oline - No running game Bad game management Lack of offensive innovation. Would CJ Stroud cover up a lot of these issues? Of course. But he would be held back. We'd be in the situation we were in prior where we had this young dynamic QB in Cam, held back by an average head coach. I would have waited to the year was over, but in my mind, Reich wasn't the guy.

I might agree with you if he had a whole bunch of success in Indy. Fact of the matter is, the reasons why that fanbase was eager to rid themselves of Frank are rearing their ugly heads here. Lack of innovation. Stale offense, lack of movement - motion, etc. If Frank got C.J. like he wanted instead of Bryce, would we be better right now? Sure. C.J. is undoubtedly better. But we'd also be deriding Frank for not getting the best out of CJ like we did Ron Rivera and Shula Cam's entire time here.

True. Fair enough.

I'm not sure if they are aware you need both - both time and an open receiver.

I know we scored but I hate that play call on 4th and 2. Especially considering theyve been stuffing us all game. Frank aint it.

I cant belieeve that play call worked. If he had gotten stopped...oh boy.

Most protection Ive seen in a min

Its not that we cant run the ball, thats one thing. We keep going negative!!

3rd and 1 to 4th and 9 lol

Yeah I think there was leg on leg contact there making him down by contact.

So it seems the only notably success Reich has had offensively in the NFL was in 2017. He was offensive coordinator on that Carson Wentz/Nick Foles team that won the superbowl. Anyone know if that offense was notably creative and innovative? Or was it mainly because of overwhelming talent like us in 2015? Also did Reich even call plays? Because Doug Pederson was the head coach and I believe he calls plays on offense?

Yeah I think they have better weapons than us, but they are still bottom of the league. C.J. is the key there. He makes playing QB look easy.

Not sure I agree, but it's certainly a resonable take. I suppose your argument would continue that Tank Dell's success is due to CJ Stroud and that if Mingo were in Houston he would be putting up similar numbers as Tank is now? Doubtful, but okay. Not sure what you do with TE. Schultz, prior to CJ Stroud, had 3 years better than Hayden Hursts best year. He's just notably better than Hurst.

Hard disagree. CJ Stroud isn't working with top tier weapons no doubt, but they are notably better than ours imo.

Gotta disagree -- let's say Addison is below Thielin, I don't buy it but sure. Hockenson is the 3rd best TE in football to me. At worst 4th if you still rank Kittle High. Overall not a bad answer though. At least you answered. The only one I thought of that was close was NE. But I think Kendrick Bourne would be the number 1 here and I like Hunter Henry more than Hurst.

It's the first line of defense because it amazes me how people can be so confident in their assertion of Bryce's bustness knowing the reality of what he's working with. Which is the WORST SKILL TALENT in the league. For a rookie. Now to Dalton -- maybe it was a one game sample, maybe the Seattle Secondary was missing 2 of their 4 starters, maybe Dalton got the ball out quicker so the defensive line couldn't get to him while Bryce holds on to it too long, maybe his offensive output is exaggerated by the fact that he threw the ball 58 times, and the most Bryce has thrown it is 41, so maybe the coaching staff knew that Seattle was missing 2 of the 4 starters so part of the game plan was to throw the ball more, maybe one of his touchdowns was a 47yd TD on a busted coverage because seattle was missing 2 of the 4...you know the rest. Or yes, of course maybe Dalton is just plain better than Bryce, that is certainly possbile too. I don't know the exact reason for Dalton's performance, most likely a combination of the above. I do know that that performance doesn't mean that Bryce doesn't have the worst skill talent in the league as a rookie.

Can anyone name any team in the league with worse skill position talent than ours? Anyone? WR"s - TE - RB - is there anyone in the league who is worse than us? Name them. And that's not even talking about offensive line and coaching.

And those two QB's have better weapons. Barkley is in and out, but in the game you are referencing for Devito, he played, and played very well, my fantasy team thanks him. And the other quarterback is throwing to DJ Moore. A few times a year DJ Moore would take a screen pass to the house by himself. We don't have that guy.

And this is an example of the frustration on my part. As someone who sometimes defends Bryce. I'm not saying it's the offensive line. I'm not saying it's his weapons. I'm not saying it's the coaching. I'm saying it's ALL three combined. Yes the Giants have a trash offensive line. Now, do their weapons and coaching. Well their coach won coach of the year last year so let's assume he doesn't suck. Their weapons are average at best, and still notably better than ours. And the guy who caught 2 of Devito's touchdowns yesterday happens to be a an all pro Saquon Barkley. Having a weapon like that certainly helps. Go back and look at Barkley's first touchdown catch yesterday. Tell me you can see Miles Sanders doing that.

It seems to me that you are painting Trey Lance in the best possible light, and painting Bryce in the worst. Saying he was "passed by" is awfully kind of you. One could also say, that he lost his job to not only Brock Purdy, but to Purdy's backup, Sam Darnold, a guy we kicked out of town not to long ago, spending most of the off season as the 3rd string QB, to the degree that they traded him for a 4th round pick. You can say a lot about Bryce being a bust, but I'd guarantee you a team would trade more than a 4th for him right now. You trade what the 49ers did, you surround him with the best talent in the NFL, the best coaching in the NFL, you set him up to succeed expecting him to be the guy that finally gets you over the hump, and you get his level of play. It's safe to say he's blowing Bryce out of the water in terms of busting. Trey busted with gold around him, Bryce is busting with trash.

The entire nature of this debate with Bryce is to determine to what degree would he be playing the way he is right now if Christian Mccaffery was his running back - Aiyuk, Samuel, and Kittle were his weapons, Trent Williams was his blind side protector, and Kyle Shanahan was his coach. The point I'm making is Trey Lance poo'd the bed with all of that (minus Mccaffery) -- which is why it's reasonable to look at him as the bigger bust. I wasn't arguing Bryce being good, we were talking about why Lance should or should not be considered a bigger bust.

I doubt that. He might not do much when he got on the field, but he would get his shot as a top 5 pick vs a 7th rounder.

I don't mean to derail the thread OP. I'm curious about something... For those who think Bryce is a bust, but who also acknowledge that he has nothing around him, the main argument is that even with nothing around him, if he was "the guy" he'd show flashes of being "the guy". This is a credible argument. What I'm curious about is, if Bryce had league average weapons, league average coaching, league average protection, where do you think he rank amoung QB's in your opinion? Now he's bottom 5. Would he still be bottom 5? Would he be about Jordan Love level? Do you think he'd perform well enough that you wouldnt be calling him a bust?

I just disagree with this perspective. I think it's an argument for Lance being a bigger bust. You walked into a stacked situation, a team ready to compete now, some of the best coaching, and best talent in the entire NFL... and you can't even see the field and get beat out by a 7th rounder.

Threads like this give me whiplash. Just when I'm about to say that the Bryce skeptics are totally right, and everyone saying our failures are due to the issues around Bryce, are totally wrong...We get threads like these which are so obviously biased against Bryce that it makes the Bryce skeptics look silly.