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So you're telling me that without Aarond Donald, who yes was on the team, Cooper Kupp, Jalen Ramsey, Von Miller (who they also got after getting Stafford) was moot. And the only thing noted offensive genius Sean McVay, who has a snapshot memory of football plays needed was Stafford? The same Stafford who couldn't win a playoff game, let alone a SB when throwing to fugin Megatron? ok. just, lol. ok. The Bucs were not winning, but Brady doesn't go to that team if they don't have Mike Evans, Chris Godwin and that defense that was top hlaf in the league the past two years. They had a team. The Bills go 9-7 because -- McVay is good and built a team. The offense Josh Allen inherited was the one Tyrod Taylor was running the year before, which fit his playstyle. They also continued to add to that defense, then went out and got Diggs. i would not mind this path if it worked out for Richardson, its what I hope, but Richardson is way worse of a passer than Allen coming out and situations like Allen -- completely reworking your mechanics and it working game time -- are rare.

No believe it or not my standard is still "Win a super bowl" I just don't think throwing poo at all wall and going "Hurr durr, this'll work" is the answer, nor do I think tanking is a realistic expectation in the immediate future. So it's either absolutely limbo in mediocrity or at least formulate a plan with what we have. I do believe that yes, eventually, we're going to need a QB that takes us over the top, but I don't think you can convince me that Richardson or Levis ceiling is substantially high enough to make up for how low their floor is. Adding talent to this offense should be the objective, if Sam sucks so be it but it's better than Richardson sucking and we having nothing to show for it.

3-1 under Sam with a functional passing game. We're the best team in our shitty division and look to be in abt as good as position for "The future" as the Falcons right now, so it looks to be sustainable for a bit longer. The NFC as a whole looks pretty weak to the run game, with only the Eagles and 49ers having elite run defenses.

Todd Gurley had been there for years, McVay has not. McVay was handed Gurley and and Goff, took them to a superbowl. You mention me ignoring things, but then ignored that fact that the Rams replaced one OMVP with another in Cooper Kupp. And thats not mentioning the additions on defense. Or how OBJ > DJax. In lieu of the draft, they kept adding proven talents on top of what they had already! That's how they won! You also keep ignoring the fact -- my literal second line that no one is saying we win a SB with Darnold. At least not me. You keep saying you're "for the future" -- the build on how we're winning now. That's how you get better in the future. The Chiefs did it. The Bills did it. The Bucs did it. The Titans are literally doing it, right now (I rly expect them to trade up from one of the QBs, be surprised if they don't). They won first, then got QBs.

Band-aid how when we're winning? This isn't Madden even against bad teams its a fight to win. We're winning right now and you refuse to accept it as viable, dismissing how we win. I've given you teams that are running the ball Right Now at this very moment, and even conceded that if we go QB, I'd like to go Richardson but you refuse to accept the fact that this is who we are this is our future. It's not a band-aid if its working, and that also doesn't mean it can't improve. Mahomes is still great right now without Kelce and Hill, but when I asked you that question earlier that was in the context of when he first starts. The reason the Chiefs move on from Alex Smith isn't because he's bad -- it's because his weakness goes against the gameplan. He didn't have the zip to attack tight windows or coverages in zone, nor the improv skills to have it break down. Mahomes had both, plus the added element of a cannon for an arm. That system is what makes the legacy of Mahomes, unless you mean to tell me you think year 2 Mahomes is an MVP and then taking them to the SB on the Bears with that offense.

Because the conversation wasn't with you. You answered a question out of context that I was having with Linville. The context of when I first asked that question was established earlier, where we had discussed the Chiefs and their building.

Literally not the point of my question, there was context behind that question. This question was wholly acknowledging the fact that the reason Mahomes had success is because he was implanted in the system Alex Smith helped build.

@LinvilleGorge Loving how when cornered all you can say is "Can't win a SB with Sam Darnold", like anyone in this fugin' thread was saying that. All we're saying is we want to keep winning, because there's success in winning. Why go against what works instead of what might work? And then there's not any arguments or reasoning behind it! just "He was bad before so he'll always be bad." and something abt training wheels because where running a system that attacks short and deep and focuses on running. You'd think you'd be happy waiting for next years draft class, we could get Maye! Definitely be better than golden boy Howell. Though I don't know if he can throw the ball as far as Zach Wilson, what a gem.

Bro we're not winning a SB period next season stop capping. You never answered my question -- Is Mahomes good without Kelce and Hill, and are Kelce and Hill that good without Smith and Reid?

Exactly! Which is why the goal is "Get to the playoffs". You don't think it's possible in the realm of infinite possibilities that is the NFL to get a -- not as statistically prolific -- 18' Wentz/Bortles season out of Darnold? The season where he had a great run game, elite o-line and great WRs? Draft someone Robinson out of Texas (yes I know haha HB in the first round but humor me) and use assets to get someone like DHop or Jeudy who likely hit the trade market? Live with the mistakes and trust your defense? It's risky but with how absolutely tepid the NFC is right now, who cares what happens in 24 with their adjustments, boom or bust league. Now that's. Incredibly unlikely. But possible, especially the Bortles part. A lot would need to go right, and honestly I'm still hoping we improve the coaching staff more than anything. But the point being NFL is boom or bust -- but you still have to take advantage of it in the moment. We can't just hope things align like how we'd plan them.

Cool I've been lookin for a post to piggyback off of my thoughts abt Darnold and this is as good as any. Darnold is who he is. And when people normally say that, it's typically negative. He panics under pressure, he then makes dumb decisions under pressure, his processing speed is slow, and his accuracy is wonky. What Mcadoo has done good here is realizing Darnold is who he is, but in a positive light. The Steelers game, funnily enough is the reason why I'm encouraged by Darnold going into 2023. Not poo went right around him, but he still found ways to thrive while also not making any mistakes -- even when pressured! He either stepped up and made an on time throw, or he reset and took the sack! That's a big step forward! We know what Sam can do when things go right, we've known for two years. He makes 'Wow' throws, hell he made a few yesterday. Nobody in their right mind should say "Sam's gonna be elite.", we're still unsure how much we can truly put on his plate, if he's really made his current habits permanent, and how well his decision making holds up when adjustments get faster and faster. But if Ryan Tannehill and Marcus Mariota can still have starting jobs going into week 1 of the 2022 season, in a year when Jared Goff on the fugin Lions and Geno Smith are having great years, there's literally no reason not to feel okay with going in with Sam and Matt and building up your areas of strength as a team. If he meets the means, cool. If he acoels, great! And if he stinks it up then poo happens.

And we're not going to compete for SBs unless we get to the playoffs. Your mindset is incredibly boom or bust, and even if you get what you want you have PLENTY of cases like Murray and Texans Watson to show it's not that simple as just get your QB.

Because we see where we're at as a team, right now in the year 2022 in respect to the NFL. A team winning with Sam freaking Darnold. Yes, there is still improvments, and we're more than likely gonna get clapped in the playoffs (Cowboys run D is sus as hell tho, and Sam has show good against the defense even before the ints started), but there's a sustianable blueprint here. Improvements need to be made at QB and if we get a top tier QB from this draft? Aces! But also we know that there's more consequences to "Just start swinging who cares if you miss" to this team in the year 2022 and the immediate team in 2023, a team that can start building success if they build right. Nobody is saying Sam is the future past it, but what he's shown he should be the 2023 starter.

AND adding Jalen Ramsey and Von Miller. AND replacing Gurely w/ Cooper Kupp. And again, that team lost because they lost their identity. Regardless of position, that's tough. If Gurley doesn't have arthritis that's a different game, that's a different Rams team that STILL ended up playing that game close. If McCourty doesn't make an elite deflection the Rams seriously might win that game. We're not in a position where we really can be anything else but a team trying to figure out their answer at QB. There's no easy answer. There's no easy bake Mahomes, Rodgers, Allen or Brady. Even Stroud or that Alabama kid i'm blanking on aren't guarantees, just safer bets. Zach Wilson went #2 overall and he has worse processing speed in college than Darnold ever has. All we can do is look at ways to replicate our success, and ways to suport it and make it stronger. Do you think Mahomes is as good as he is without Kelce? Without Hill? And do you think THEY'RE as good as they are without Smith, Reid and their success?

Yes, I did. "second they could." is the key here. They didn't rush. They didn't try to fit a square peg in a round hole. They built around Alex Smith then put Mahomes in that system, now they're building around Mahomes.

Drafted Mahomes in the first after winning. With Alex Smith. You're missing this part because you're so marred by the fact we're not tanking. That's not an option. Did you forget how absolutely dogshit Alex Smith was before Harbaugh? Like man pre-HarbaughAlex Smith woulda been dogged worse than Goff lbr. It wasn't until *gasp* he was put into a winning situation that he developed!

And you build consistent success by Winning.

Yeah i don't care abt it, just calling out the mod team.

Yeah like the Chiefs who started with Alex Smith oh

i'd love to build a franchise that always wins and never loses and plan for 10 seasons ahead. That is not feasible in any sport and especially not the NFL. Saying "Put Darnold in a situation to succede next season." also has the added benefit of being a system that another QB can take advantage of if he blows. How's that short sighted? How is that any better or worse than "Draft a QB hope they're elite and never lose!"? Also, I'd love to get your input on a system QB. Because I'm gonna say "Jalen Hurts is a system QB" and see what happens.

Getting to the playoffs should be the goal. Once the playoffs happen thats when its more about matchups, not just who has the shiniest QB. Yes, Darnold being a playoff choker is a real possibility, but that's true of...literally any QB. Sam could be Joe Flacco in the playoffs for all we know. Unlikely, but he's shown resilience throughout his entire NFL career, so its possible. There's been plenty of 1st round great QBs that blow chunks in the playoffs. The QB situation in the NFCS is weak right now, hell the NFC is weak rn. We should take advantage of that but that shouldn't come at the cost of planning for the future.

Watch the mods not warn this post lol.

You see, you're spouting general NFL knowledge and ignoring our situation. We have a chance at the playoffs because our Division is weak. Its looking like it might remain a little weak. We have a chance of maintaining a future of winning the division. We are winning by having a strong run game, and a strong defense. We will still need a passing game, and right now under Darnold with the contributions of D.J., TMJ, Viska and even Shi a bit, it functions. The reason it is what is now is not just because of any one player. Would the passing game open up more with a more trust worthy QB than Darnold? Sure! But it's not easy to find that and the options presented to us are much worse, hampering our immediate chances of winning if they bust. a pick that could've been used to bolster our strengths. Darnold is a bit more unique than most 2nd contract QBs like Alex Smith, Ryan Tannehill Marcus Mariota, etc for a variety of reasons that, while unlikely to happen at a consistent rate you CAN see a way he elevates the team when needed for the immediate future. Will he ever be elite? Unlikely but you can elevate his play more clearly than you could any of the QBs listed above, while living with his weaknesses. And at the very least you CAN win with that. And if you don't? Then reevaluate the next season. The difference with the above is you're still building a system a QB can succeed in. if we draft a bust QB yeah we can move on, but that's not only a pick that could've been used on building on what we have in a time where a window is open in the NFCS, but it's a year of contract time and age to the players we do have and risks their chance of success in our system going down. This sets the Panthers back.

Eh, if Baker can bounce back under structure i have no doubt Russ can. Hackett fugin blows. Didn't get the coaching hire unless they got Rodgers. Never got the pairing of him, a guy who didn't call plays in GB and Russ, a guy who loves to improv seemed like it'd be a nightmare for the rest of the team. I'm openly a Russ Hater, but Hacketts shcemes suck. But really what I've learned from this is we should be on the phone tryna get Jeudy from them ASAP.

I wouldn't mind Wilks as much as I would mind Mcadoo.