Saca312

CJ Stroud's footwork is precise and top level. Bryce Young's footwork looks like a sloppy child learning to walk for the first time.

I recall those hype videos the Panthers made before the season. How they all knew they needed to get it right with their pick. Well, they done fugged up. Texans are reaping the rewards of the best QB from the draft, and are knocking the door on the playoffs. Meanwhile, Panthers are the worst team in the NFL, and Bryce nowhere near Stroud's level of play.

Bryce Young could make that throw once in a blue moon. CJ Stroud makes that throw any given gameday.

Stroud has ROY locked. What a throw.

If he shows these past two weeks are more the norm, I'll be ready to get on the train. But to fully trust him, I'd like to see him continue it to next year and show this isn't taking advantage of a weak secondary and the elements. Hope to see more quality play these next two games and him building from there. I don't think he'll reach the point where it's clear cut he was the best value at #1, but the next best thing is for him to be a consistent top starter in the league. If he does that, I'll be happy, even if the value for getting him is never there. I've been burned by blind optimism in the past and with this team I'm learning to be more skeptical. I'd love to fully be on the Young train and I've loved what I've seen these past two weeks, but I just need consistency and a bigger repertoire of this play.

I genuinely forgot he was on this team. He's been invisible all season.

I recently saw this thread on the Panthers subreddit, and thought it was also worth discussing here. Tabor was pretty unconventional this weekend. Recognizing the elements at hand, he even planned for that. Rather than have Piñero at kickoff, he opted for Kamu Grugier-Hill to handle that. In the details, that allowed for an extra defender to take the field on a day where the elements were not favorable for normal kicking conditions. Squib kicking and ensuring coverage was sound was definitely a gameplan I don't think I've really seen emulated across the NFL. Additionally, calling the timeout during the first quarter to ensure the punt would not face the full wrath of the wind was also of interest. Found that to be a rather useful element in the conditions that they played in. All in all, I'd say I was rather pleased with Tabor's management and his touch on the special teams aspect of the game. Seemed like he was having his own fun coming up with these ideas and implementing them. Small details in the grand scheme of things, but in a game of inches, they may have made a difference.

Matt Rhule's wife for GM! Chubba was a beast!

Now imagine us having two extra first round picks from trading Burns that could get us Marvin Harrison Jr. next year for Levis to have fun with, and/or a pass rusher that actually can finish his pass rushes and stop the run.

And thus far, Bryce certainly is foul with his on field performance. We'll see how long this experiment lasts. For the sake of this franchise, I hope it ends before it blows up beyond repair.

That's a very solid response. Cam's worldview for game changer seems to rest in athleticism/maximizing talent in any situation, while game managers succeed only in a specific system and thereby are limited in that facet. Definitely a lot of variance in the definition of game changer vs game manager, and heck interpretation of such will obviously vary from person to person. Understandable there will be pushbacks with different perspectives. I definitely respect Cam Newton's opinion and agree for the most part, aside some of his examples.

I don't think he's advocating for Bill or anything. Just mentioned the contrast in experience he had in NE vs the clownshow under Rhule.

I'd like to think that in his framework, they excel from a system in which they are given easy choices as to what to do. Having playmakers and a framework that is more guided to make less mistakes is what I like to think Cam means when talking about system QBs, who need a better environment to excel. Not necessarily just dink and dunk. I will concur that Dak Prescott has played lights out and Cam shouldn't have dinged him as much for that. Sure, a chance in offensive approach helps and he has a great supporting cast, but he's arguably making plays out of structure and doing well with that as well.

Very interesting interview overall. Worth a watch to see just how dysfunctional this franchise has become under Tepper. Some interesting nuggets curtesy of twitter: In this context, Cam Newton reveals a startling revelation: Throughout McCaffrey's tenure here, he was never truly coached, and it seemed that the coaches never figured out how to properly coach him. Cam suggests that the situation in SF is much more beneficial to CMC, as the structure allows him to be healthier. However, in Carolina, it appeared that they ran him into the ground but never found a way to coach CMC to his full potential. Considering that CMC was here under Rivera and Rhule, it's very concerning that this franchise couldn't maximize CMC and learn how to handle him properly. Speaking of Rhule, Cam criticizes him harshly and highlights how much of a joke he is. In the first snippet, Cam talks about a situation where he came back to the team, and a certain QB was quite salty about it. Cam was flabbergasted at Darnold's reaction, implying that it was almost tantrum-like as he insisted on being the starter. Cam noted that this kind of discord was immature and concerning for locker room cohesion, as everyone should be playing as a team and not worrying about petty issues, especially when the decision is not theirs to make. Cam, being the veteran professional he is, called Rhule to mediate and explain the situation to Darnold and settle his thoughts. Turns out, this was likely the first time Rhule held Darnold accountable in some form, and Cam had to persuade the coach to do so. He goes on further in the next clip, emphasizing the difference between Belichick and Rhule. Rhule never attempted to connect deeply with his players, seemingly sticking to his own way and not delving into each player's personalities and thoughts. This disconnect was shocking to Cam, especially compared to his time with the Patriots. Behind the scenes, Bill often worked to connect with his players, taking the time to know them, their personalities, their lives, and their thoughts. He used that to create a cohesive team environment where everyone understood and connected with each other. This is a stark contrast with Rhule, and it's likely similar to a certain head coach who was recently fired. And then he talks about Tepper. Cam explains a bit about a hypothetical scenario where he's the Team President and what he'd do to leverage the situation. He highlights Tepper's failures and says he clearly came into the NFL out of his league, despite his success as a hedge fund manager. Oh, and he also explains how much of a dick Gettleman was about tie-gate: A lot to unpack from these snippets. In short, it wasn't Ron Rivera emphasizing ties, but all Dave Gettleman. He was a totalitarian douche who reveled in his way or the high way approach. Even back to the Superbowl, he pretty much forced his dress code and a variety of other crazy approaches. Ultimately worth a watch and listen. Good insights to this franchise and how much of a joke it was and currently is.

Sounds like just the QB Tepper loves!

Hell at this point Will Levis has shown more than Bryce has all season. Incredible end to that game.

Frankly any one of Stroud, Richardson or heck even Will Levis has shown more promise than Bryce has all season.

Reality is, Tepper was sold on him being the most ready, and he fell hook, line and sinker. He arguably has the lowest ceiling of all the top QBs drafted from the 2023 class, and the hope was his floor would still allow them to be competitive. As this season is showing, that expectation crashed and burned quite badly.

Some serious incredible foresight. Acknowledging Stroud would be the only good option and that all others would bum out.

Oh how right you are. EDIT: My god you literally hit the nail on the head with each post you had in here. All your predictions pretty much turned out exactly as you expected. From Kyler Jr. being bad to how any WR fitterer acquires being a dud, sheesh, that's incredible. At that time I was in asheville high on hopium, but damn you really saw through it all.

LOL. The hype machine will be rolling: The Past: It'll be a repeat of the same offseasons that we've had with new coaching coming in. For Rhule, we got hyped that he turned around a college program from ineptitude to somewhat competent. Forget his inexperience, obviously college coaches to the NFL was the way to go. We got excited about him bringing his yes men and him bringing a college level attitude to the table. Obviously this is a superbowl caliber coaching staff! He crumbles, so we go the opposite extreme with Reich. He's got so much experience, forget his lackluster offense in Indy! We get excited he's an offensive head coach, and then super excited he brought in guys with more experience in the staff. Obviously this is a Superbowl caliber coaching staff! The Present and Future: He crumbles, so now Tepper will aim for the Young McVay/Shanahan clone. Said clone is Shanahan's brainchild, he's got so much innovative ideas! Forget that the offense won't find any further WR talent in the offseason or draft, and especially forget that Bryce Young is bad. We get excited he's an innovative offensive head coach that promises he'll fix bryce. Obviously this is a Superbowl caliber coaching staff! This same tired song and dance towards flinging poo and hoping it sticks will continue. New coaching staffs won't fix the limitations Young inherently has and one offseason won't jumpstart this offense to the echelons of the 49ers. Shanahan wouldn't even be able to make gold out of this poo. The Panthers are a mess, they'll be bad in 2024, and unless Bryce Young somehow lucks into getting the second coming of Jerry Rice and Randy Moss at wideout, will continue to be bad. I have little hope for improvement, but the same offseason dance of false new toy hope will continue until proven otherwise.

You give him weapons. At this point that's all you can do. Get some elite level talent on offense and hope he becomes serviceable. Goff shows benefits from a scheme and offense that elevates his play. Purdy is also a very good example of that. Young can be like that too. That is the only way the Panthers can salvage this team. That will never change the fact that the value we have given up for Young was not worth it and very idiotic. For the value of DJ Moore, 2024's first overall pick, to only get decent level play from your QB in the right conditions is pathetic. The value given up dictates that the return should include a QB who elevates the team around him. Young fails at that at the NFL level. Stroud or Richardson (for his short stint) have shown to elevate their conditions and would have been more worth it than Young's impact.

Time for me to eat crow. I've been an optimist for quite some time. Often, I'd look and find the positives of any pooshow and fit them to fit a narrative that there is hope. After 2015, I parroted 2016 as a year not one where Cam Newton regressed, but rather progressed in a sea of mediocrity. This year, I started out clamoring the belief that this coaching staff melded together a force to be reckoned with, and any preseason doomsday predictions was mere folly, hinging my bets that this "all-star coaching" staff merely did not play their cards and instead would unleash an ingenius offensive explosion in the regular season. Naysayers such as @LinvilleGorge were posters I ignored with regularity as the season went on, with myself holding onto faint hope that something would soon spark. Turns out, meshing together conflicting minds, despite their pedigree, does not ensure a well oiled machine. Instead, the team faltered in leadership, cohesion, and effectiveness, barreling their way to the 1-12 record they hold today. Dysfunction across the board, infighting and CYA attitudes flourished in the misery that is the 2023 Carolina Panthers. But even despite that, my optimism wanted to take hold in another form - fanaticism for our #1 overall pick that we've mortgaged the future for. Ignoring the red flags, I hyper-focused on the good. He made accurate throws and anticipated well at times. He seemed to progress through his reads at first. He scrambled well at certain other times too. These moments were instances in which I hyper-fixated on and believed that Young would build upon these and become the franchise QB this team desperately needs. Any failures or inadequacies on offense, I blamed on the situation. Without a doubt, these receivers are sub-par, and the offensive line horrid. The scheme was a terrible mesh all around for the personnel, and Young did not fit in Reich's mold whatsoever. And yes, the offensive system and personnel around Bryce are a problem. They are largely ineffective across all fronts. But, as the season went on and opportunities started presenting themselves more, I began to notice something. Despite bettering conditions, Young's play hasn't improved. His negatives continued, and reared its ugly head in today's game against the Saints. The Carolina Panthers have rushed for 200+ yards. That is an absolutely bonkers statline considering the offensive line and how the run game looked at the beginning of the year. This would normally result in a fair win. Instead, the offense could barely muster any points, and rather sputtered when Young was asked to be an NFL QB. You can argue about the flashes he's shown all you want and how he made this throw or did this thing in the pocket, but the crux of those flashes are simple expectations for an NFL starter. You'd hope they'd have accurate throws, be able to anticipate, and occasionally ad-lib when things break down. That is the bare minimum expectation, and celebrating normal events that NFL QBs do is like praising an adult for wiping his ass after a poo. "Congratulations Bryce Young, you did an NFL QB thing that any of the other 31 starters could do." And at one point, I was a part of that group praising Young for knowing how to flush a toilet. The bare basics were touted as positives. Let's be real: Bryce Young is not a UDFA or tryout type player. He is the number 1 overall pick. In addition, the Panthers have given up their future with the expectation Young would be their guy. As the number 1 overall pick, he makes quite a bit of money for a rookie, and the expectation is that he would progress to be better than the average. At a minimum, the expectation is to see flashes of top tier talent. His super-processor should allow him to elevate poor conditions and showcase ability to elevate the team around him. He is the #1 overall pick, he was drafted with that expectation in mind, and he is paid good money to be able to do just that. When the most common defense is "Young's team is so bad around him, that's why he's playing poorly," then expectation is that he'd take advantage of the rare opportunities that present themselves when WRs get open and the oline blocks decently. Today, those opportunities presented themselves, and Young poo the bed. He forgot to flush, he forgot to wipe his ass, and he downright wasted his opportunities and continued a worrying trend - he's not improving, but instead regressing even more. Regression after the pitiful start Young has had is quite something. The Falcons game showed early on Young misfiring deep shots to open WRs, and making mental errors on his interceptions to Bates. That can be excused as lack of cohesion with Young and his receivers, with the expectation he improves. He hasn't improved. He airballs wide open receivers to this day and fails to connect on the deep opportunities that present itself. He finally had a good run game going and deep shots were finally considered - he just outright missed those opportunities and looked as bad as he did downfield in week 1. His mechanics still sucks. He's shown mistakes in processing, and his throwing velocity sucks. His athletic limitations especially rear its ugly head with opposite hash sideline throws and downfield - defenders often keep up with the ball because they're in the NFL and are hyper-athletic freaks. Young's limitations and mistakes have cost this team games, rather than help them win games. He cannot elevate the team around him, but instead needs others to elevate him. That's fine if you're a bottom round pick, but the first overall pick should habe the ability to elevate the team around him and show flashes of greatness. It's week 14 and I haven't seen much to the that effect. Rather, I've seen too many bad habits continue and getting worse. In today's league, speed is everything, and noodle arm QBs with bad mechanics and poor athleticism will fall behind. Defenses are fast. Anticipation (guessing) is overrated and falls short when the arm talent isn't there. Those opposite hash throws Young attempts at times are downright awful in velocity and it's hilarious seeing defenders catch up to it. Bryce Young quacks like a bust, swims like a bust, and looks like a bust. He's probably a bust, and a failure for where he was drafted and the value given up for him. It's week 14. He was the number 1 overall pick that DJ Moore, 2024's #1 overall pick and more were traded for. He has shown more traits of being a bust instead of a success. Take off the rose colored glasses and acknowledge - this team fugged up, and Young is a part of the problem. He won't ever justify the value given up, nor even the standalone fact of being the #1 overall pick. His limitations lower his ceiling, and even if he finds his collegiate strengths, he'll fail to achieve anything more than being a middle of the pack QB at best. Maybe he'll improve when he gets a top tier oline and WR help. Sure, that's fine, and his play will henceworth hinge on making sure his surroundings are elite rather than hoping he'd be elite. That's not what you want out of a #1 overall pick, since even the likes of mr. irrelevant Brock Purdy can do that. As @electro's horse pointed out when I relinquished my fanaticism in Young, these are dark times indeed.

And therein lies the crux on why Bryce deserves a fair amount of criticism. I've been on the bandwagon of defending him in the past this season. He really is in a terrible spot and has clearly broken down. BUT, for fugs sake he's the #1 overall pick. Not just that, but one where this moron of a GM (and owner) decided to mortgage the future on. At this point, he should've shown stuff to rise against the adversity of the situation he's in for what the Panthers have given up. Frankly, any defense has been towards him showing flashes of what an NFL level starter is expected to do - anticipate throws and make them accurately. He's shown flashes of that basic stuff. He's shown zero ability otherwise at elevating this team. For what we've given up, he's supposed to be able to do that. I've excused him for the first half of the season. Now, there's no excuse for him to continue to be worse. He may end up a fine NFL starter, and I hope so. That chance is looking less likely, and his limitations - lack of athleticism and arm - clearly are showing its ugly rear head. It's looking like one of the worst deals this team has committed themselves to. Shooting themselves in the foot with a QB with clear athletic limitations in a league where that can kill a QB's potential. And with Young not even showing strengths in what should be his strengths (supah processor, super intelligent) I have little faith in him at this point.