kungfoodude

Just now, Pantherxtreme said:

Affirmations are good, just don't lie to yourself, so never tell your mirror that you know football. 

Lol. I think mentally healthy people don't generally concern themselves with being their own hype man.

But you do you, buddy.

8 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

Tyler Shough's wins are against us (a very up and down team), Tampa who is crumbling, and the Jets and Titans. He's played well but there's the very real possibility that when the lights are bright he turns into a Matt Moore, Kyle Allen, or Desmond Ridder.

I could at least see the logic in thinking NO is on the upswing, but it's not like the Falcons just all of a sudden are a contender because of the QB switch to Cousins. He's still the same guy who is up and down - and there's no telling whether he'll actually be there next year with his age/salary combo. 

My post had nothing to do with Bryce, this has been a popular refrain way back to the Fox/Rivera years when we pick up a few late season wins and it was always thought of around here as we only win when it doesn't matter and only there to screw up draft position.  

I would think they have enough to pencil him in as the starter in 2026.

That said, hope he goes out 2025 with a dud and Atlanta romps all over them.

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

Bryce can't throw an accurate ball to tiny Renfrow. 

Just use the big 3.  Tmac/Coker/Tremayne.  I assume Moore will replace Tremayne which is pointless.   

I can't tell if the misuse of Renfrow are his own limited abilities, poor play design for him or Bryce just not being able to recognize him being open before it is a contested catch.

We kept throwing him all these contested catches early in the season and he wasn't very good at that in his prime, much less in "shell of himself" mode. That poo still has me scratching my head.

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

I'm not arguing against any of that. But if a super talent looks bad vs elite competition you also have to factor in the level of talent around him. You can't expect him to beat say Auburn without another draftable player on the roster.  It works both ways. Yes he clearly developed over the course of his career but you could say any player not a instant success has the same benefit of time and learning.

You would rather get the talent in the building than just say oh well that car needs to much work vs taking a guy that has less ability and less upside. I wanted Richardson over Bryce and Stroud to this day I stand by that, you can't predict being injury prone, if the elite talent fails it won't be because he lacks the talent to play at the NFL level 

 

Yes but you are describing the sort of player that warrants a lower round pick because they are extremely risky.

Richardson is the ideal example. He was one of the worst 1st round QB prospects coming out of college I have seen in the last 15 years. Completely ill suited to being in the NFL, despite being otherwordly talented. And he has conclusively proven he is not an NFL player. 

That's why you don't take the XL's of the world over the Ladd McConkey's or the Matthew Golden's over the TMac's. 

Skill and ability matters more than eye popping underwear Olympics measurables.

Willis went about where he should have(if not too high) based on the level of prospect he was. It's great that he looks like he is really turning the corner on his development. But let's also be clear, he has still never been a season starter any any point in his 4 year NFL career. I don't think you are likely to see him get a starters  salary anytime soon. Not until he proves it.

All that said, I'd be happy to pay him as a top tier backup and give him a shot at winning a starting job in Carolina.

5 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

Competence and confidence sometimes get confused by smart guys like you. 

I am sure you tell yourself that in the mirror every morning.

I can't find a source that has snap counts by half. That would take an All 22 look.

4 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

Haha trust my knowledge of football over 90% percent of this board, but that doesnt mean I'm right all the time. 

You seem to assume alot, so I'm certain you're wrong alot. 

I think your takes certainly show that you are very confidently wrong. It's not unusual for the blissfully ignorant.

1 minute ago, strato said:

Both Atl and NO have responded to QB changes. I am looking at that and what it means for their future.  NO in particular is worrisome.
 If people thinking that happen to be at odds with Bryce love, or perceived fairness to him, oh well. Call it whatever makes you feel better.  
 

I don't know how much credit I would give the QB change in Atlanta. During this three game win streak Cousins has only had one game above 200 yards passing. I think it's a combination of things but less to do with the QB(technically, Penis Jr. was a statistically better QB in his 9 starts). 

Also, while people get worried about New Orleans, don't forget that they are getting less and not more talented over time. Most of their best players are currently over 30 and several are very close to retirement.

8 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

Brother just like with the Roseboom thing I would have to forget all that I'm seeing with my eyes to believe he's a terrible player,  likewise I would have suddenly have to disregard all visual to believe the Bucs have a better roster than the Falcons.

I saw Atlanta go into Tampa without their #1 receiver and put up over 400 yards passing, have 19 accepted penalties for over 125 yards and still put the beats on Tampa.

Nothing on Tampa scares me, I'm scared of Cousins if he gets hot, nothing yall can say would convince me to be worried about Baker Mayfield he is what he is. I'm scared of Bijan I'm not losing sleep over Bucky Irving, Pitts and London are match up problems, Mike Evans is great no doubt, and Godwin is a 3rd down killer but both are leaving their primes. 

 

Defense there shouldn't be any debate here so I want go too much into that. 

Yeah, I mean it's okay to be wrong just like thinking Rozebum isn't a special teams player.

I don't doubt you don't want to do a deep dive because I am pretty sure you haven't actually looked at a single depth chart to make those unit by unit comparisons.

6 minutes ago, trueblue said:

I laugh when I see the terms “elite”and “Top 5” attached to Horn.. He’s neither.. 

He was a mistake pick. Should have been Parsons.. but if you were hell bent on a CB, Surtain was the guy.

Forget about the awful facemask penalty.. Look at the Saints games.. Mr. 70 million guaranteed got smoked like a ham in both games.. the Game of BoA he was atrocious- penalties and was primary coverage on two TD’s. The game in NO Olive ate his lunch. “Shutdown” CB’s don’t let that happen. 

If you look at a lot of their career statistics, Horn isn't far behind Surtain. I think Surtain is a far more sure tackler and is beaten badly a lot less often. Horn produces more INT's but also get beat pretty badly more frequently. 

Surtain fits the "shutdown" mold. In this defense Horn is a little bit more of a gambling/Josh Norman type CB. 

11 minutes ago, RevJ said:

I'd probably say yes - primarily because when Burns messed up he just overran the QB again - he missed making a game changing play.
Horn - at least the last few games - has really hurt us with penalties, dropped INT, and getting beat regularly when the other team needed a first down or a score.  

Burns hurt us ample times by loafing and being a nonfactor. You don't have the benefits attributed to having an elite pass rusher when they disappear from games.

Horn has lapses but has had far longer stretches of very good to elite play than Burns ever has.

11 minutes ago, CRA said:

Eli is super weird.  Also shows the importance of not being great...but being memorable and relevant to the storytelling of an era.   

Eli Manning 117 wins, 117 loses,  60% completion. 0 All Pros. 

But beating Tom Brady and rings matter. 

 

 

538 did a great breakdown on how he was the greatest average NFL QB in history.

I think that is accurate.

11 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

I think most of us aren't really Bryce haters as called but more so really confused and ticked off at this FO and it's behavior surrounding the QB room. The things they've done look like Bryce is being protected, shielded, whatever you want to call it, and that's coming from only one person, Tepper. He made the pick and he recognizes far too late when he's made a colossal mistake. Rhule, Hurney 2.0, Frank, Fitts. It just feel like just another log on the bonfire Dave started when he bought this team. 

Agreed. I mean, how much more evidence does one need? He has made extremely marginal improvements over a three year starting career. Even the "best of Bryce" at the end of last year was still below league average. So, if that's what we are ultimately chasing....what is the goal here? Is it to make the franchise better long term or prove that your chosen one is a franchise QB by just stubbornly refusing to accept anything otherwise?

This whole situation stinks because I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel, no matter what happens with the team itself. They seem to believe Bryce is the guy and that's just what it is.

So....fug it....let's at least win the division. Hell, it will be fun to needle the Saints, Falcons and Bucs fans that they couldn't even get past a Bryce Young led team. 

16 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Willis has an elite arm. And elite athleticism. He is big enough. 6'1 225 isn't small. NFL Network had a round 1 grade on him. The only knock on him really was he came out of liberty level competition.

His knock was that when he played any sort of level up in competition he looked completely lost and unable to deal with the competition level change. That should and did scare a LOT of teams.

His abilities were arguably the best in that draft but he did play like a Day 3 pick in college.

It's clear that the development at the NFL level has helped tremendously. And probably aided by being a long term backup. He is the exact type of player that needs that development route.

Just now, PootieNunu said:

I still could see it happening, hes a Manning, won two rings, beat the undefeated Pats, etc.

He started 210 games straight and is 11th all time in yards and TDs. They can and will justify it. Id say hes a lock in their eyes and i dont agree with him over Luke either. 

If you recall correctly, he was the longest debate last year in the HOF committee. I think that likely means there are some pretty strong supporters AND detractors. 

I think he will get in eventually but I don't think this is the class to do it.

16 minutes ago, PootieNunu said:

Fitz and Brees are definitely getting in this season and maybe Eli.

They normally only do 3-5 modern guys per season....Luke might get snubbed again. He should have been first ballot. 

89 going to wait a while, if he ever gets in. 

Eli getting in before Luke would directly fly in the face of the changes that were made to limit "less elite" players from getting in.

4 minutes ago, raleigh-panther said:

I hope this is true

Young would thrive with the current 49ers, great all round team, and Shanahan makes QBs better, even Alabama reclamation projects

he needs a finished product and the Panthers ain’t that

it is so hard to see Maye, Stroud, Williams and the rest, even the NO qb, and watch what the panthers trot out there every Sunday 

 

I don't think you would see Bryce shine in San Fran. He might be better than here but he doesn't have any of the abilities that Purdy or Jones have. 

Even if you put him in the perfect situation, his ceiling is very low. His floor is an abyss.

11 minutes ago, NAS said:

Living off old glory.  They’re aging quickly 

Some of their premier guys are definitely aging but unfortunately a lot of their best ones are still quite young.

10 minutes ago, Pantherxtreme said:

Nah.

Bucs are just deep at receiver.

But when healthy I would still take Drake London over all the receivers in the NFC South and I would take Pitts over all the tightends. 

 

Tampa roster is getting long in the tooth, Lavonte David, Reddick, Vea, are just names now theyre not what they use to be. 

Falcons have one of the best pass rushes in the league by far the best in the NFC South, Pierce is going to be a problem. 

I'm not sure where you think Bucs have the advantage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You might want to take a look at that Bucs roster again. It's no slouch. Definitely better top to bottom than Atlanta. 

Both are significantly better than our roster.

13 minutes ago, LegioX said:

The thought of having a QB for the foreseeable future that is not progressing after 4 years and regularly plays games where he is going into the 4th with less than 100 yards total and can’t throw a deep pass to save his life seems pathetic for this team

this team is playing its ass off but we are handicapped by a QB that cannot play the position. 

And that is another extension of the evaluation problem that plagues this franchise. All that fault lies with the Tepper-Morgan-Canales "braintrust."

You will get the final word on those three when you see what they decide to do at QB this offseason. If we stand pat, it's safe to say that Tepper hasn't changed, Dan is just an extension of Fitterer and at the very best, Canales is a yes man.

The story has largely been written. It's just about what chapter they all choose to accept the ending.

16 minutes ago, The Lobo said:

Saw this on X 

This is Bryce's first three years starting versus Pennington's first three years starting(he was on the bench for 2 seasons prior).

3 minutes ago, uncfan888 said:

XL snaps are declining and he started taking special teams snaps. The coaches know he's a liability 

It took them long enough. It was pretty evident after last season he was a bust. He has literally done nothing but continue to hammer that home all season long.

3 minutes ago, bythenbrs said:

You misspelled Ladd.  If only he was available when we picked XL, how our WR room would look different.  [sigh]

That's a very obvious example because we so clearly made the wrong choice.

But it works perfectly here and is a cautionary tale of why you never take physical attributes with low skill level over extremely high skill level with lesser physical attributes.

1 hour ago, NAS said:

Most talented = Falcons

Best coached = Saints

I think the Bucs are actually a more talented overall team. 

1 hour ago, Pejorative Miscreant said:

Agree.

 Many players on this team work their asses off everyday to get to this point and fans have waited for years for an inkling of success. To pull for a loss at this point (as a fan) makes no sense to me. The Tanking argument (which I don’t get either) is closer to rational than this mindset IMO. 

I agree. I am long over the draft position thing. Good front offices are good at evaluations. They can get players. Bad teams consistently draft in the top 10 because they fail at evaluations often.

There is no rational argument to root against your own team in this scenario.