kungfoodude

22 minutes ago, strato said:

Back to XL, I am not there to know how dense he is when it comes to coaching and the lessons offered and how long it takes for him to absorb that. 
I suspect he needs more time for that stuff. Than the next guy. And whether it would help or not I think he would have a better chance with more attention than I think he gets. 
 

You wanna say he should hire his own coach? I wouldn’t disagree with that at all. Because he needs more coaching. 

I think he is beyond any sort of coaching help. He couldn't dedicate himself enough be a decent college football player until five years into his career, apparently. At the rate that it's going, he would be close to the end of his career when the light finally flips on.

It's best to move on. Let him be someone else's problem and focus on getting NFL players on the field.

Just now, strato said:

I look at it like a quarter of the season is lower quality football. 
The veteran teams will like fare better because they have a lot experience together to fall back on. 
A team like us with a bunch of new people, it hurts us. 

I again disagree but this literally has nothing to do with XL. He was just as bad in snap one as his last snap of the season. If anything, he kept getting worse.

That's not a practice issue. That's an issue with motivation and ability.

The amount of people in this thread that know nothing about NFL free agency rules is simply astounding. 

5 minutes ago, strato said:

I am saying it isn’t that as much as the lack of practice time in pads. 

Yeah, that probably matters for 2-3 games of the season. If that is the difference between anything significant happening in your season or not, perhaps your team just wasn't very good?

I don't think we will agree on this subject. I just generally view this as fairly insignificant. 

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Actually upon further review it not actually clear what would happen. Google AI (I know) says “it may” lead them to being an ERFA again. 

Ah, we have the core of the issue. Someone not using their brain and just simply looking at the league rules.

The dumbing down of humanity keeps increasing.

Just now, electro's horse said:

As a returner.

and are you really bringing up pro bowls like that matters

 

Yeah a returner with 74 catches, 1207 receiving yards and 7 TD's in his career at the point he was named a Pro Bowler. But since you don't think that matters, he was also a first team All Pro that season, as well.

You can dig this hole as deep as you want but I have no idea what the point of this is for you. Just to be as wrong as possible as many times as possible?

This is literally much ado about nothing.

1 minute ago, electro's horse said:

I mean unless the rules are lying to me. 

UFA's are players with four or more accrued seasons and an expired contract per NFL rules. 

Also, holding out means Coker does not accrue any more time, also per NFL rules.

He is indeed correct that he would be an ERFA. This is why you don't see hold outs. The rules literally don't allow it to work at all. It would be career poison.

https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/nfl-operations/nfl-free-agency/types-of-free-agents/

Just now, WhoKnows said:

WTF? You think that he hold out and gets  unrestricted FA because he hasn’t accrued 3 seasons. What are you smoking? If he holds out in 2026, he’s likely an ERFA in 2027 and an RFA in 2028. Basically loses a whole year of pay.

Please point to any example of a guy holding out as an ERFA that got to skip RFA. 

Lol. I am pretty sure there has never been an ERFA hold out. It's a completely insane thought to even have.

Shaheed was a literal Pro Bowler and didn't do such.

2 minutes ago, strato said:

Look at the quality of play in the first few weeks. It is clear. 
Nowadays the season is the training. They only get better from real in game experience. It does not get drilled in, in the offseason nor in training camp. 

Well part of that is less preseason and part of that is shifting towards not playing many starters in the preseason. 

It's also a longer season now and those early struggles aren't that significant in the long term.

4 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Teams would be interested in a sign and trade for him.

To flip this around, the panthers would then be in a position where they either get nothing from him and lose him in 2027 or trade him to recoup value.

or do the most panthers thing which is do a desperation extension after he’s held out for half the season and gotten fat. 

You are generally inventing a scenario that there isn't any actual precedent for, nor would this scenario help Coker. 

Also, I don't think you are going to see anywhere near the compensation that Shaheed received and that was a 4th and 5th. 

Ya'll need to calm down. Coker will be back under a very, very, VERY cheap deal and then we will move forward from there. Ideally he keeps getting better and he eventually is worthy of a very large deal.

14 minutes ago, strato said:

If you want to apply that to XL or any other player that is one thing.

It does not work with 11 guys working as 1. Just doesn’t. The quality of play in the NFL has declined, even while the quality of the athletes has progressed. Increased. 
And the limits on practices and drilling as a unit are the primary reason why. Secondary cause would probably be the rule changes that hurt the defense and take real hitting and intimidation out of the game. 
 

Debatable third reason might be the colleges not even trying to run pro style offenses, and the league going with the path of least resistance and switching to backyard football. 
 

Which hurts the running backs I think, and probably has led to their devaluation. That’s another issue for another day. 

I would generally disagree with the "quality of play declining." I think that's just something people try to claim because the league changes or doesn't look the same as they remember it from some period of time they most associate with. 

The league is cyclical, it always has been. You just may not like the cycle it is in. 

There is no great crisis. Yes there are some issues with some players in college but it's not anything that has caused massive swaths of NFL Drafts to be unusable. That would be what you would expect if this was a real issue.

5 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

So a one year deal for 12 mil, basically? Darnell Mooney got that this year.

if I was his agent I’d hold out and get a sign and trade worked out. Tampering doesn’t exist anymore. I mean Jesus the bills gave Josh Palmers bum ass 3 years 29 mil in 2025. He put up comparable numbers in an actual nfl offense.

The top free agent WR in 2026, assuming Jerry locks down Pickens, is looking like morbidly obese Deebo Samuel.

his agent should tell him to hold out while he sends pictures of XL to Dan Morgan every day. 

Hold out for what? They aren't required to pay him anything if he doesn't sign it, nor can another team sign him. 

That would be a very bad look for a guy that is just starting to get his career off the ground.

If he is smart, he keeps the length of the deal very, very short(ideally 1 year) and he bets big on himself.

8 minutes ago, Sup said:

The sooner we make a longer term deal with him, the better it will be. He's obviously already performed better than 99% of players with similar contracts.

It's rare for UDFA's to get to the point that he has but I will point out that Shaheed was significantly more successful and he still had a modest 2 year, $6.185 mil deal as an ERFA.

3 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

He may choose that route. But it would not prevent me from trying to work out a long-term contract. 

Certainly. I believe Morgan even mentioned trying to get something worked out.

I don't anticipate it to be anything significant in terms of length or amount. There really isn't any precedent for that that I am aware of. IIRC, that Shaheed deal was considered quite large for an ERFA. 

3 minutes ago, electro's horse said:

Or he holds out. Happens literally all the time.

If nothing else, pride shouldn’t allow him to play for a team paying him less than Xavier legette.  

Holding out just means you sit out a year and don't get paid. They don't technically have to negotiate with him at all.

ERFA's have zero leverage. Coker has very, very, VERY little because he cannot afford to simply sit out a season. It harms his career significantly more than it helps it.

Keep in mind, although we all love Coker tremendously that we are talking about a player that also has less than 900 career receiving yards and 7 career starts. It's not likely the rest of the NFL views him as anything much.....yet.

2 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

They may indeed. But he's taking a huge gamble on staying healthy and being able to repeat his production for 2 additional seasons inorder to get a shot at a much bigger paycheck. 

NFL WR's have a very narrow window to get big contracts, accepting a very small, long term contract as a projected starter(remember this is a projection at this point) shortens your payment window tremendously. 

The best idea if he indeed is going to be a FT starter next season, is just to simply sign the 1 year tender at league rate. That means he can get to far bigger paychecks far sooner.

It will be interesting to see how it goes down.

1 hour ago, strato said:

 

I won’t disagree on the practice time, of the coaching having access to the players. The NFLPA has fuged our game up with their negotiated restrictions. 
 

Put these SOBs on back two a days and get the coaches where they can be hands on, watch the quality of football be restored to what I (we?) grew up watching. 
 

But this is not some defensive HC with a run first offensive staff. The two senior offensive coaches have WR coaching g background. 
I am in no position to know what they have done but the evidence appears to say they should have been more pro active. I am not letting them off the hook because of the NFLPA and their crap. 

That wouldn't improve much of anything. 

At the professional level, you are expected to be a professional and work on your own development. It's an investment in yourself. Almost all elite NFL players and most NFL players spend ample amounts of time working out with their own coaches, doing their own film study and developing themselves.

The issue at the NFL level is very rarely anything to do with practicing with the team. The guys you are talking about are practice squad players with little NFL future. The investment in time would be meaningless in 99.99% of the cases.

Just now, Jon Snow said:

I would give him a 3 yr $15M with 12 guaranteed.

It's very likely that he and his agent would immediately reject that offer. They would be more likely to reject that offer than they would the exact same deal Shaheed signed.

1 minute ago, Mage said:

I like Jalen Coker, but I think some of you need to pump the brakes a tad.  He is in absolutely no position to be demanding a big money contract.

There is little to no chance that the Panthers are going to make NFL history by signing an ERFA to a massive contract or a long term contract. That's not the way ERFA's work.

Will likely get a deal similar to Shaheed in NO. Shaheed was a Pro Bowler and more productive overall than Coker has been at the same point in their careers. His deal was 2 years, $6.185 mil in 2024. 

I wouldn't be surprised to see Coker somewhere around that if not a little more. I would be surprised to see a long term or large deal with this contract. I suspect it will be a short term contract at a low price and his next deal will be the big one(provided he keeps improving). 

Historically, UDFA's take a lot longer to get their big contracts and generally make significantly less career money for some obvious reasons.

Day 3 practice on NFL Network now.

4 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

XL has all the physical tools to be great, but he doesn't possess the skill and knowledge intangibles. But honestly those guys are all over the NFL. On practice squads. 

His offseasons should consist of 7v7 only. He has all the athletisicm he'll ever need. Quick enough. Fast enough. Big enough. Strong enough. But just not a very good WR right now. What he's missing will only improve with time on the field with someone correcting him real time in game situations. Catching passes in traffic. Working his way back to the ball whenever he can. Knowing where he is on the field. Highpointing whenever he can. Pushing off without leaving your arms extended. Waiting until the ball is there before putting your hands up to catch. Tracking the ball over his outside shoulder. Leaving room on the sideline for your QB to place the ball on deep routes. I mean there's alot he needs to improve on. Some of it is related, so figuring out one will help him on another. Unfortunately, there aren't enough NFL practices or games to do it all. Just go play football as much as possible with a trainer. That would be my suggestion. 

 

I suspect he does not spend nearly enough time attempting to hone his craft. Not as much time as he spends honing his social media persona. 

47 minutes ago, firefox1234 said:

I’ve heard enough.

He is a very Evero EDGE. Limited pass rush moves, very strong bull rush and very good against the run.

Likely would never have more than 4-5 sacks/season here but a great edge setter and run stopper.

25 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Browns hire Ravens OC Todd Monken for their HC. A 60 year old with only three years of HC experience and that was over a decade ago at Southern Miss where he went 13-25 over three seasons. The Ravens' offense fell off a cliff this year from being a top 5 unit the previous two seasons to middle of the pack #16 this year getting Harbaugh fired.

In other words, classic Browns move. LOL

But like Tepper has found put, these are the types of hires you're left to make when everyone with other options is going to choose other options. 

It's going to be very funny to see him have to deal with shell of Deshaun Watson and two PS QB's next season.

17 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

I've never been a big fan of Belichick, but the idea that he shouldn't be a first ballot Hall of Famer is absurd. If it's because of the scandals are they going to deny Tom Brady the first year as well? If it's anything else it's clearly a political game.

Brady is still essentially cheating to this very day in the NFL.