kungfoodude

1 hour ago, TD alt said:

Now now now, I wouldn't say there is no logic, but there's just not a lot of in-depth thought put into Barnwell's  "analysis." Now to be fair to him (and other national writers), pre-season team rankings are basically clickbait. And...Barnwell, himself, said that "there's a lot of projection here." He basically admits that he doesn't know how the hell things are going to turn out with our receiver group. He also said that "I find myself" more intrigued by Coker than Legette; that does not mean that he said that fans should be, or that Coker will even be better than Legette (regardless of ESPN's per-route-run stat). So, yeah, Barnwell said some things, but even he has to basically admit that he doesn't know how bad or good that our playmakers will be in 2025. 

Overall, what Barnwell is basically thinking is that the Panthers have gotten worse at the offensive skill positions, and baked into that is that others have gotten better. That's the argument in July (meaning, please don't give this any more weight than it's due). I would personally be surprised (not shocked) if we end up worse than the Titans, Pats and Giants at least. Once you throw in the Bills, Giants, Jets, Steelers, and even the Chargers, I personally think there are several teams' skill groups that may end up ranked lower than ours by the end of 2025. 

@kungfoodudeis one of my dudes, but like others he is over the tipping point. He's had enough. Seeing is believing. I will say this though: Barnwell's piece is less about logic than just good ol' opinion. And to be honest, he might as well be a Huddler throwing out sh¡t in the summer based upon nothing but good feels or bad feels. 

Our offense as a whole (just like any other team's) is going to depend upon the play of the O-line and especially the QB. How you can even rank the skill positions without expressly baking those two things in the cake is beyond me. I would dare say that that's not even logical. 

Yeah, this is all projections of how it will turn out. Inevitability this list will look ridiculous in a full 2025 sesson hindsight, most likely.

Still, I am pretty surprised that so many bristled at being thought of as having very, very lowly ranked WR and TE units. We literally have been for years. All you have to do is just have things stay the same and those are immediately bottom 5 units.

It is easy to see why one would be reticent to have lofty expectations in the preseason. Gotta show it first when you are a perennial cellar dweller. That's just life at the bottom.

52 minutes ago, Davidson Deac II said:

Don't care.  We have two thousand yard rushers.  The receiving group is pretty much the same, except that we added a first round pick and Renfrow.  Tight End group is the same. Just goes to show how arbitrary some of these rankings are.  It was basically they were bad last year (at least to start the year) so they will be even worse this year.  

That's fine but you are just ignoring his logic behind because you just simply don't like it. That's your prerogative, certainly, but it doesn't invalidate his perspective.

I would say if you weight the groups similarly to how he does, it's very hard to justify us being outside the bottom 5. On paper our WR group is easily bottom 3 in the NFL and our TE groups is probably bottom 5 too. As good as our RB corps is, for a "weighted towards WR" ranking of WR/TE/RB groups, it's very hard to justify anything outside the bottom 5.

I don't see any reason to dispute it at all. These guys have to go out on the field and prove they are better than that. Nothing special about that scenario for a boatload if very unproven players. It just is what it is.

22 minutes ago, carpanfan96 said:

https://www.newsobserver.com/sports/spt-columns-blogs/luke-decock/article310129845.html

 

From Luke with the observer 

I am not gonna subscribe but I just plain don't believe we have had many offers.

4 hours ago, carpanfan96 said:

Apparently the Canes have had multiple offers for KK, but have turned them down since they don't have someone to take over as the 2nd center. 

 

I don't believe this at all.

2 hours ago, DavidEng said:

Why would you be surprised? He’s only 26. Necas continued that scoring clip after being traded to Avs. His combined totals for the regular season were 27 goals 83 points in 79 games! KK not even a comparison.

Agree he has had a drop off in playoffs and can’t put my finger on the cause other than facing great teams.

 

His PPG actually did go up a little in Colorado. We will see. I still sort of believe we saw pretty close to the peak of his abilities last year.

Not wishing him ill or trashing him in any way. Just tend to believe we did sell high and correctly so.

6 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

The projection makes no sense.  28 last year, 31 this year?  

Well, other teams also had an offseason.

6 hours ago, CanadianCat said:

Got to love these reporters and believe everything they say... 

I honestly agree with him. Right now I have way more faith in Coker ascending then I do XL.

3 hours ago, mav1234 said:

Given our rushing attacks rank last year and the clear upgrades behind Chuba, I really do not understand this ranking. I get out TE and WR room have a lot to prove but this seems a bit crazy

I think it's the TE/WR group dragging us down. Plus he does mention that the list was made with WR's very much valued more than RB's and TE's(I understand the thought process). In that context, we have a very aging AT, two "wait and see" second year players(one leaning bust) and a rookie. 

I really think this is a very fair rating, on paper and in the offseason. Quite frankly, aside from the aforementioned and aging AT, this is a bunch of guys still trying to prove themselves. 

Then when you go to TE, it's easily a bottom 3-4 unit on paper. That is probably being extremely generous. 

RB is where we make our hay. Probably a top 5-10 unit. But....he mentions early in the article that he doesn't value the RB units as much. 

So, really, it's the weighting of the skill positions that is what really fugs us.

Quote

31. Carolina Panthers

2024 rank: 28 | 2023 rank: 31

Well, the Panthers certainly keep trying to add receivers. This year, it's No. 8 pick Tetairoa McMillan, who they hope fills the same role Mike Evans did for coach Dave Canales when he was coordinating the 2023 Bucs' offense. A thriving McMillan will allow all of Carolina's wideouts to drop one spot in the rotation, which would suit many of them. Looking back at the Panthers' 2024 class, I find myself more intrigued by undrafted free agent Jalen Coker than second-round pick Xavier Legette, as he averaged a respectable 1.9 yards per route run to Legette's 1.3. Outside of veteran Adam Thielen, who continues to produce at age 34, there's a lot of projection here.

Read more on the NFL's greatest

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With Jonathon Brooks out for the season, the backfield will run through Chuba Hubbard, which is well-deserved. Hubbard is patient and powerful; his burst between two unblocked Cardinals defenders to score a game-winning in touchdown in overtime on his final snap of the 2024 season might have been Carolina's offensive highlight of the season. The front office did well to bring in veteran Rico Dowdle, who was a league-average starting back for the Cowboys when given the opportunity, as Hubbard's backup.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/45679684/ranking-nfl-teams-wr-te-rb-groups-2025-season-best-players-playmakers-offense

2 hours ago, DavidEng said:

I want Necas back lol

2 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I like Necas wheels and his ability to create space with the puck on his stick.  Super talented and fun to watch.  But I don't like how his game translates in the playoffs.  Maybe we didn't have the right team composition for it to work, but his time and space disappeared pretty quick in the series' (plural?) where we got sent home.

Necas is great to watch but I firmly believe we were correct to sell high. I would be very surprised to ever see him come close to the clip he was scoring at during his time here last season. 

10 hours ago, DavidEng said:

Trade KK, not Blake.

Trading KK is still probably a tall order. He has a no trade list and even with the cap going up, not many are going to want his salary for the minimal returns he offers.

Ideally, he had a "breakout" year early this season and then we can sell high like we did with Necas.

1 minute ago, DavidEng said:

Jackson Blake  in his first full year had a 34 PT season while averaging only 13:54 Mins a game. You don’t trade a player with his expected potential unless it’s for a top tier 2C. 

 

I don’t see it. But who knows.

I agree. Blake seems like the classic Cane type of player. He is one I would be very reticent to part with at the moment.

8 hours ago, MillionDollarCam said:

I originally hated the Miller deal but with the cap projected to rise nearly $10M next season the Canes struck some pretty good deals between Miller and Ehlers.

Most of the team is locked in for the next few years. Nikishin will need an extension probably in the $6M AAV range. And Blake will need one if we don’t move him. Personally I’d move Blake, picks, and any prospect not named Nikishin/Nadeau/Artamonov for McTavish as I don’t see any any of the big time players moving teams next year. Realistically the Hurricanes should just target Gustavsson next year to fix the goal tending issue.

But I’m all for moving Blake, picks, and prospects for McTavish this year.

Ehlers - Aho - Jarvis

Svechnikov - McTavish - Stankoven

Martinook - Staal - Carrier

Hall - Kotkaniemi - Robinson

Jost - Jankowski

Slavin - Miller

Nikishin - Chatfield

Gostisbehere - Walker

Reilly

Andersen

Kochetkov

I’d do Blake, Felix-Unger-Sorum, and 27 2nd for McTavish.

Gustavsson would be insane. I think we would have to break the bank to afford that move. Which, I don't think is necessarily a bad idea. Ultimately, Freddie isn't likely to be around more than a couple of seasons more. We can all agree that unless they have a fleet of sports psychologists working on Kochetkov, he will never be capable of getting his head on straight enough to compete.

10 hours ago, DeeJay said:

You know the party is going to be big once that dope david newton retires

Watch them hire some even bigger buffoon.

3 hours ago, OneBadCat said:

I think it’s going to be Sanders.

3 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

It's a lock to be Sanders.   Kid is going to explode this year 

I think a lot depends on health and if T-Mac pulls targets away from him. 

Hopefully, we can get both T-Mac and Sanders cooking. If AT doesn't drop off, that would make for some potentially formidable receiving threats.

1 hour ago, TD alt said:

Well...first off, I think it's a little harsh to say that X "is not productive at all on the field." He wasn't good, but he was hurt, and we saw some flashes nevertheless, especially as it pertains to getting open. There was enough there to hope for improvement, but of course nothing is guaranteed.

Secondly, X is a man of the people. People can relate to him. Cam came in---what can be perceived as arrogant (whether true or not---that's a whole nother debate). I had more than a few people, from my country, white late-50ish boss to more urban, black students from the North, to my now dearly-departed 98 year old grandma tell me that Cam thought that he was all that and a bag of potato chips. Cam always had a perception problem in my opinion, and some people just aren't going to like him. Mind you, I've defended Cam on many occasions, but If I'm gonna hang out, I'd pick X from what I know about both guys.

Getting back to the field, X is still just starting and receivers just generally have way less opportunities to fug up than a QB. For now, X is perceived to be a guy that takes full responsibility for his inadequacies, and by pretty much all accounts, he works hard and isn't relying on his uber talents to get him through like it's a predestined entitlement to be a star. Some may say that Cam took his talents for granted, right or wrong, and that he never really improved because he was so much more talented athletically in some respects than most of his peers--he was comfortable where he was. I'm not saying all that's true or even fair, but one thing I will say is that no way I'm putting Cam ahead of Pep or Smitty in terms of being the best player in franchise history; others can believe he's the best, but for me he'll never be better than third at this point.

Okay, so I can say it a little more nicely that he was "barely productive in his rookie season." 

There is zero comparison between these players accomplishments in their rookie years. Quite frankly, given what we have seen from XL so far we would all be very lucky for him to end up as a top 15 WR in franchise history. Cam's talent was very evident, significantly less so for XL. It's obvious that he is an athlete and very much less so that he is a football player.

Don't get me wrong, I am not rooting against him because that doesn't help us at all. The pick is already spent for better or worse.

I am just firmly in the camp that doesn't really think he will pan out. I also think he will firmly be entrenched as the 3rd or 4th option by the end of this upcoming season.

Hope he proves me wrong.

2 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

Not sure how to feel about KAndre Miller.  Could be a great signing but it could also be pretty bad.  I like that he’s only 25.  I assumed he was older because he’s been around for years now.

He leans goon/enforcer, which we haven't had in a minute. I do like that.

Just now, MillionDollarCam said:

That wasn’t an accurate report. Tulsky just stated in his presser it’s unlikely either are back.

Oooh. I hadn't been updated on that.

3 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Ceilings is probably 60 points...

Okay move hyperbole by my buddy 

He's a lil fella.

But, he is a Rod/Cane guy for sure. 

4 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

Tulsky said we are talking with Ehlers and it’s unlikely Burns or Orlov are back.

Miller is your de facto 1RD who is left handed until we do something else.

We are talking with Ehlers.

You know Burns already re-signed, right?

11 minutes ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

Remember Logan stankoven is gonna keep getting better. That guy is gonna be an absolute fuging monster for us.

I mean....Little Monster, maybe.

I will say that the past 2-3 offseasons have been pretty confounding and/or underwhelming and they turned out pretty well. I will withhold a lot of judgement for that reason but....I don't love it.

58 minutes ago, CRA said:

I don’t feel XL actively is seeking all the attention he gets.  Sometimes it approaches a border line of them making fun of him or using his uniqueness him for clicks.  Especially last year. 

He is 1,000,000% actively seeking it. He is playing into it intensely and it is about as obvious as any social media Insta/Tikta ho. 

Again, I will stop having issues with this once he starts not looking like a complete bust. Once that happens, I will defend him intensely when he is attacked about his dumb shenanigans. Same as I did Cam.

I only get annoyed because he isn't cutting it as a football player. IDGAF about the off the field stuff.

5 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Yes we have a rod problem 

I think that a lot of the star players just aren't interested in playing hard all game, playing both ends of the ice and also coming to NC. 

For the offensive players, I think them not being "featured" offensive guys is an issue too.

So, yes, it's partly a system problem but I think it does largely have to do with the players more than Rod.

17 minutes ago, PantherChris said:

Yup lol huge needs at C and RHD and all the news we have is a trade for a LJD

I think we are struggling to really attract guys.

2 minutes ago, Pejorative Miscreant said:

Good question and I don't have a good answer.  If I had to guess it might have something to do with the Aw Shucks approach that people may feel as being more genuine. 

None of this stuff is going to matter if  XL cant catch the damn ball though.

I generally believe that XL is less genuine with his schtick than Cam was. But, I know neither at a personal level, so I have no way to truly know. I know that if Sam Darnold or Matt Corrall was doing all the poo Cam did on/off the field and getting XL level coverage, I would be pretty over it too.

Not saying I have any issue with XL's antics but Cam's production outweighed the sideshow that he was. Currently XL is 98% sideshow and 2% production.

4 hours ago, CRA said:

XL needs his contract reworked already.  Basically that outlaws him from being a country boy going forward. 

He is an underwhelming player on a cheap rookie deal. The type of clauses you are talking about would be something to discuss if he ever panned out and signed a large second contract. Otherwise, nothing to see here other than someone building their "brand."

Someone will eventually have to explain to me how this guy, who is not productive at all on the field, gets all this adulation for his oddball off field/on field antics and schtick but Cam got absolutely pilloried for his oddball antics while being arguably the best player in franchise history.