kungfoodude

Yes really, bro. Maybe watch a game or two.

Bro, there are about 27 minuteseft in the game. There are also 56 games left in the season after this one. Rod will figure it out. Chill.

Yes.

Brother, you might want to consider decaf. It's gonna be okay.

Still playing a little flat. Haven't quite pulled out of our funk yet.

People are jerking off over Saquon but he has been banged up too. He has missed 22.5% of the total games he could have played(to date). CMC will be at 28% by the end of the season(assuming SF doesn't make the playoffs). That isn't too far off. Derrick Henry has missed a total of 8.3% of his total games in his career.

All things I used against signing him to that completely insane extension and reasons why we actually did "win" that trade. The fact we squandered all the resources notwithstanding. Amazing player at a position of limited value in the NFL and with some of the shortest careers. Not to mention that his recent injuries are both overuse and overtraining related. He has been very hard on his body on top of that mileage. Something has to give and it largely ended up being his longevity.

Darnold is considerably worse than Brock Purdy and basically in a similar scenario. He's a regular dude driving a Ferrari, not Lewis Hamilton driving the fug out of a Toyota Camry. Good example is that Darnold is at 1.17 TO/GM this year in MN. His Panthers career TO/GM average was 1.22. He is the same guy(backup tier) as he has always been, just on a team that is elite with elite coaching.

Cam and I don't agree on what "game manager" means.

I don't agree. We have somehow managed to be competitive which is not nothing. I agree the matchup is not favorable.

+13.5 is wild. I think we cover that. Still suspect a double digit loss.

Brady was considerably more than a game manager.

Yeah but why would you say Darnold or Dalton are "winners?" Darnold is anything but a winner and Dalton was a pretty good QB in his heyday but probably still a Tier 3 guy even in his prime(Tier 1: Elite, Tier 2: Almost Elite(think Ryan/Cousins/Dak/etc)). I don't think Winston is a classic winner. He's a classic TO prone gunslinger. A lot of fun and a lot of frustration. Bryce....eh....TBD. Definitely hasn't displayed much in the way of being a winner. I'd say looks like he could eventually ascend to elite game manager, which is absolutely fine. Bryce has the rest of the year to show if he warrants further time as a Panthers starter or if it's time to pivot in another direction. Winston has shown he can certainly be a guy that can come off the bench in a backup role and win some games. That's really all you can expect for a player like that.

So we pass day one starters and likely contributors in McMillan and Graham for a project DE from a university known for producing bust DE/Edge players. Seems like a Panthers thing to do.

Dalton is 84-82-2 in his career. Darnold is 31-37 in his career. Jameis Winston is 36-49 in his career. None of these guys are really "winners" per se. Dalton being the closest(5 seasons with above .500 records with just 2 each for the other two). Also, every QB that becomes a champion has to win first. And not all champions are winners. Nick Foles had 2 winning seasons in 11 years. Trent Dilfer had 4 winning seasons in 13 years. These are outliers, obviously but even Mahomes, Brady, the Manning's, etc. had to start by winning eventually and then becoming champions. Heck, Stafford who you mention has had only 6 winning seasons in a 16 year career.

Well "luckily" we are one of the worst teams, so he would fit here.

Bryce has almost entirely a bad history, so he is just going to have to prove himself as a middle tier or higher NFL starter as his career advances. It is great the way he is trending but the truth is that we still don't know if this is his Jameis Winston streak or not. Winston, he is a known quantity. 30 years ago he would be a king, like Favre was. In the modern era, not so much. I would have zero issue with Winston as a backup or veteran guy for the right price. You just have to understand the limitations.

Or Reid. Not the same amount of stops but consistently successful, questioned because of lack of "ultimate success" and then proven to be a winner at the highest level in the end. Or John Harbaugh minus the ring.

I mean it was obvious after the game we traded him. He pointed fingers at his teammates after a tough game. Locker room cancer confirmed. In hindsight, x3. We should have known when Tomlin wanted to get rid of him.

The Raiders are going QB.

Yeah, I mean I don't think that top 5 is likely to play out the way your are projecting it(in terms of who is taking who currently). Either way, I suspect we also are not likely to be at #5 in the end. I see 1-2 more wins.

Remember when people here were losing their minds that we didn't get like a 1st round pick for this dude? Lololololololol

I mean it does stand to reason that if you are an athletic freak, why were you not able to be productive in college? More often than not, those underperforming college freaks also end up underperforming at the NFL level. Doesn't mean you should lean towards extremely productive college guys that are insane outliers physically, obviously.

Depends on the kind of offense you are running and team you have. Winston can perform better on a team with an elite defense that can erase his mistakes(which will come). But, turnovers are also anathematic to modern NFL offenses. Winston also doesn't have any more upside. He has reached 100% of his potential as a player. He's a cannon armed, TO prone gunslinger that will make insane plays that few in the league can and he will throw INT's that will make middle school QB's blush. You'll live and die by his decisions. Bryce is a fairly ceiling limited and far less developed player. He will never be able to make the insane throws or comebacks or do any of the wild things that Winston does. He also won't be all too often heaving crippling INT's. He is a guy that can MAYBE effectively manage a game and put you in positions to win, with the right people around him and the right sort of team.

That unit was also quite bad with Derrick Brown there, not sure if you recall but he was lost while we were getting the poo kicked out of us by 37 points. Ultimately, he needs interior help. The guys we have now are JAG or JAG+ players. That will need to be remedied at some point. I agree that adding Graham doesn't help our "top pass rusher" issue, which likely won't be solved this offseason no matter what we do. However it does limit the double teams that guys like Clowney and Wonnum will see. That does help our pass rush overall. Trading back to "get another first" isn't likely to happen for the same reasons we just discussed. Outside the two QB's, which not all teams are going to have elite grades on, there isn't a lot of reason to trade into the top 5. That brings down the chances of that happening or getting this massive compensation that isn't likely to be there. I would absolutely rather have Hunter or McMillan over Graham. No question about it. But ultimately if the BPA situation is that they are gone and Graham is #4 or #5 on our board(or the general consensus) then you absolutely take the best player available. You don't overdraft a guy that might not be an elite talent out of "need." That's how we have failed so many times over and over again(see recent examples of XL or even Brooks). Don't reach for need. Play the board. Also, don't have a completely terrible board which has been a real issue with the Tepper Panthers.