kungfoodude

My counter would be that an average QB's success is largely dependent on those around him. A great QB will be good to great regardless of the pieces.

I genuinely don't think you have any concept of what being a fan is. I think that is the real root of the problem.

I am not wishing him to do poorly because then we are sliding down the historic Browns/Bengals kind of slope. Not a place I want to be. But me hoping he works out doesn’t turn off the part of my brain that can see how flawed of a player he is and look at the history of these kind of reclamation project QB's. No amount of hoping is going to wash away those things. What will wash that away is performance on the field. I felt the same way about Teddy. Started the season very skeptical because I knew what he had been, started to buy in a little when we were winning games, then had the carpet ripped out from under me as he clearly because the reason we couldn't close games. Darnold feels like Teddy 2.0.

The issue is you read but don't comprehend.

I don't see how you can get complaining out of that. My point was that the dollars and "sense" of picking up that option only work if he is a wild success. In that scenario, he is getting paid regardless of being under an additional year or bring a free agent. Conversely, if he bombs, you are looking at another big cap charge off for a mistake you probably shouldn't have made. Really the only scenario that fits with the decision is if he is just kind of mediocre(which would be a big step up from his history). In that case the contract would make a lot of sense.

Agreed. But we only have where we have been, not where we are going. Let's hope the destination has a lot of hardware.

That math only assumes success, which is where your formula breaks down. Even if he is a wild success, it will likely still entail a big contract extension next year.

I don't think that was actually strong consideration, TBQH. In a similar vein to the Mac Jones/49ers situation, I think the media was taking off with a narrative because it generated views. I think the prospect evaluation process definitely led the Jets to knowing without a doubt that they were drafting a new QB.

You can laugh all you want but if he puts up similar numbers to his career averages, I don't think you are gonna see him starting in 2022. Same way with winning. If he doesn't win, he will be just as gone as Teddy. Remember last offseason when Teddy was going to be here a MINIMUM of two seasons? You saw how quickly that changed, right? I gotta be honest, I was dug in for a long haul rebuild but a lot of the vibes the owner, front office and coaching staff have given off are that they aren't content losing. Which, I think we as fans want to see. Panthers fans have accepted coach after coach that was okay with mediocrity. The question is, will we actually be able to build any success if we keep rinsing and repeating every offseason at QB? It took forever for Cleveland in that cycle.

We are quite objectively a bad franchise. 7 winning seasons in 27 is just bad. The bulk of the franchises with that sort of track record are largely the perennial cellar dwelling franchises. The thing that gives we fans hope is that our highest highs have been two Super Bowl appearances. That is something the bulk of the rest of the bad franchises can't say. Remember, that is legitimately what Tepper, our front office and coaching staff are up against. They have to find a way to have some sustained success. Sustained success has literally never happened in Panthers history. We are the NFL's only franchise to never have had back to back winning seasons.

The bar is that he needs to show he is a franchise QB. Not an average NFL starter, certainly not one of the objectively worst NFL QB's(which he has established). Honestly, anything other than that just isn't acceptable. If he can't be Jimmy Garoppolo, Ryan Tannehill or Jared Goff good, he is a bust. Acceptable results(and expectations) should be Kylar Murray/Baker Mayfield or better. If we can't be at least as good as two other highly regarded, athletic gunsligers...then he is a bust.

I just don't see the ceiling that others do. I don't think he is any better than Trubisky or Winston, who are also failed starters/draft picks. I am perfectly fine being wrong about that, because it means our biggest roster hole is filled and perhaps we have a 10+ year starter on our hands(that's when I will get excited about him only being 24). But, I don't see it.

I am fuging tired of hearing that fuging song. It had some charm at some point but that horse has been so fuging beaten that it's purely liquid.

I don't care how many excuses are thrown out there. It doesn't change what I am saying. If he doesn't get it together after his first season here, there is zero hope of him ever being anything. It doesn't matter that he started on a dumpster fire of a franchise in NY and it doesn't matter if his next stop was another very bad franchise in our team. Eventually you just have to produce as a player. None of these elite QB's have an NFL career of only star studded rosters and perfect situations. Everyone has challenges in the NFL. It's on the player to make the best of those situations. Floundering in one bad scenario to the next says you are at your very best a backup QB and not capable of being a consistent NFL starter.

Josh Allen is a tough comparison because he started out a lot like Cam, Jackson, etc. He relied on his legs a lot to carry him through his first couple of years. Darnold is a gunslinger with a little above average athleticism. The production wasn't too far off but they don't play the game similarly at all.

Yeah, but that doesn't change the bust history. If he is an outlier it won't be his age, it will be because the Jets are that huge of a dumpster fire. I have heard the "just 23/24" thing plenty. He isn't the first 20 year old NFL player and he isn't even the youngest player ever drafted. There are more than one of those 19 or 20 year old rookies that didn't bust out their first three years.(Juju is one, as an example) Like I said, after this season, it's boom or bust. Zero excuses left.

Yep. Ultimately you are still in a small, select group of athletes.

That is basically a lot of the 6th rounders to UDFA's. That is why I always chuckle when the Huddle gets so excitable about those guys. The odds of them hitting and being long term NFL starters are pretty long. Sometimes there is just a level above you and it can't be bridged by any amount of hard work.

I meant Carson Palmer. Baker was much more of a gamer/competitor than Darnold appears to be, in all honesty. Baker was frustrated when things weren't going well but Darnold largely just looks completely lost. They are similar in that they are gunslingers but I think Darnold is just basically Baker Mayfield(or Jameis Winston) with zero development or production. Agreed I hope it works. The alternative isn't fun.

My brain said Carson Palmer, my fingers typed Matt Leinart.

There are young QB's who have made it without bring on good franchises. IMO, the situation(unless injury is involved) has a lot less to do with the success rate than the player. After all, Cam came to a bad team/franchise and did well. So has Baker Mayfield and Kyler Murray and Matt Stafford and Matt Leinart and Deshaun Watson and on and on...

I mean, who on the roster is better than Paradis?

I think if we see a potential trade before the deadline for someone like Garoppolo, you would have to think that makes the coaches look like they think they are on the hot seat. Plus, I honestly think Jimmy G is safe this season, unless Lance is just a phenom and much further ahead of schedule than even his big supporters(myself being one) believe. I guess the real nightmare scenario is what if Darnold is just simply mediocre(better than the Jets, perhaps Teddy esque)and we win 7-9 games? Do you go back to square one in the offseason or try to see if you can build a Ravens/Broconos super team that can overcome mediocre to bad QB play?

High: Brian Burns. With the additional secondary help and other pass rushers added, I think all those "almost" sacks from last season will be finished this season. Not sure: Donte Jackson. He seemed to improve last season and played well at times but was also plagued with injuries. The question is, where does he fit now with Horn and Bouye being added? And, can he play consistently and stay healthy? If not, I think this could be the beginning of the end. If he does, we could have the makings of a potentially top 10 group of CB's in the future. Bad: Sam Darnold. What needs to be said, really? Textbook bust QB that doesn't seem able to process the NFL game at a speed necessary to succeed. Hard to question the raw talent there but how many talented first round QB's have flamed out before him? He wasn't set up to succeed but he also just simply didn't perform well even when things were going reasonably well(by Jets standards). I believe there is a 20% or less chance he outproduces or outperforms what Teddy did last season.

I didn't have one of those very long. Would I? Well, how mad am I at the bank?