kungfoodude

Yeah but that is an entirely different discussion than what you seemed to be saying initially. The "guys ahead of him" argument. That was why I countered like that. If it comes down to predicting what the voters do, I mean, who knows? I think we can have a discussion on the simple merits of his accomplishments versus his peers, though. I just think the arguments for him statistically and in terms of accolades are stronger than those against him.

You literally cannot follow the discussion at all. I see why you answer the way you do, because you get lost in the weeds without seeing what the actual discussion is even about. We are taking about a future scenario of Darnold+Horn versus Fields plus what it cost to get Darnold. The entire point of that discussion is the "what if" scenario for their FUTURE. Literally read back through our discussion and see how quickly you derail it by not being able to hold a coherent thought process. I said I wanted OL and not Fields. Oh yeah, show me where I said that. By all means, show me the post where I made that statement. Also, look at the title of this thread. You sure we didn't take OL in the first three rounds?

But he is better than the others being considered. More yardage than Wayne, Johnson, Bolden and Holt. The least receptions if the five. Only 1 receiving TD behind Boldin and Wayne. He was the last WR to get the triple crown. Tied for the most All Pro selections in the group and 3rd in Pro Bowl selections(2 behind the leader). This is without mentioning his 6 career return TD's. To me, it's easily Smitty in that group. The only way he is out is if they value SB rings more than those stats.

Hardy really took a season. He started 16 games his second year. If you only mean double digit sack production, then yes. But even the elite guys rarely get double digit sacks as a rookie.

You have such an illogical discussion style. Is Trey Lance a waste for the 49ers? Was Aaron Rodgers a waste for the Packers? Do you care about "waste" when you have an answer at a critical position? I am genuinely perplexed by this idea of "waste." So do you consider quality depth "waste?" Is YGM "waste" because he doesn't start? Terrace Marshall? I consider a "waste" a pick like Greg Little. He was a waste for obvious reasons. Also, the "#1 defensive player in the draft" is what he was drafted. We have zero idea if that will be the actual case. Could be Horn is a bust, could be Fields is a bust, could be Darnold continues to be a bust, could be Sewell is a bust, etc, etc. We have no idea about any of then, other than Darnold. I think this is basically where you are failing in following the logic, there are other scenarios that may play out other than the ones in your mind. Hence why I am saying that Darnold+Horn will be compared to players we passed on at 8 and the draft capital we gave up. It's not a spectacularly difficult to follow. What we got versus what we gave up. Simple as that, really. My question would be, why would you exclude any of those factors? Give me your ultimate reasoning.

Well, remember this is a hindsight discussion ultimately. Also, one we won't have complete answer on for a few seasons, even if Darnold is a bust in 2021. IMO, the picks involved in the Darnold trade are valid to use in the formula with Fields simply because they filled a hole he could have taken. Obviously we couldn't be sure that a QB would fall to us, especially him. But he ends up in the calculation because he did and we passed. I don't view the "trade Darnold after the draft" scenario as valid. It's both difficult to pull off and also makes the team look ridiculous. I think a more likely scenario would have been keeping Darnold and Fields to create a competition. Which, I would have been okay with that too. As I have stated multiple times, I value QB over CB fairly significantly.

That is your problem, you view any hint of reasonable doubt with hysteria. It's just plain weird. Especially when the Panthers fail much more than they succeed.

Remember YGM was fairly raw coming in. If anything he was being pressed into action more than he was ready for action last season. I have no issue seeing the productive vet start over the young guy. Like many said, we rotate guys and supposedly plan on being a fairly multiple front, so he will get some burn. Zero reason to panic on the DL. That unit is easily the most solid we have(famous last words in 2019).

The Stafford comparison is interesting. I would say unlike Darnold, Matt Stafford was actually good on a terrible franchise, even early on. Hell, look at his third season in the NFL. Then again, Darnold wasn't throwing to Megatron, either.

We can't say he's a flop yet. It's disappointing he hasn't ascended the depth chart but that could still happen prior to or during the season.

The formula would also include the extra draft capital spent on Darnold in the trade. Which, you could also argue a certain level of "pot commitment" based on that investment. The thing is, we don't know if that factored in or not. This is a pretty tight lipped group here, it seems. It's funny, they seem to say a lot without saying much at all.

No. Because if Darnold plays poorly, somehow Gase will be to blame. Wait until you see our player surfing, fake Panther fans start turning on the team if Darnold struggles. I mean, we were all here for last season right(obviously some weren't)? Remember the progression Teddy fervor in the preseason, to even more Teddy fervor in the first few games, to grumbling about Teddy, to the full roar of "GET RID OF THIS BUM"? I certainly do.

Are we finally going to get good TC coverage now that we are doing joint practices with Indy? I assume the Colts control the access there.

I mean...it isn't like we are deep in quality at OG. It's probably a push with OT. I hope you are right about the draft. I am tired of passing up on quality OL in the first two days of the draft, year after year.

If anything, I think we have learned that Rhule has his own style. He doesn't use his media platform to say nothing, like Belichick loves to do. He just sprays BS in every direction. He will praise a guy before cutting him, praise guys that don't see the field, etc. He seems to just generally use those moments for his own purposes without his motives being clear. It's gonna be interesting to see how that evolves if he sticks around as our long term HC.

My favorite part about making you lose your poo is when you start rapid fire posting, rife with illiteracy. I will at least give the other emo credit in that he can usually form a coherent sentence.

Now who has quite the imagination! At least I gave you some jerk off material to use later when you and your buddy are enchanging DM's.

Well, it's easy when we have such emotional adolescents on the board. I can only imagine how you must react to a real world problem. I am assuming fetal position and sobbing?

This is what happens when people can't be unemotional about message boards. Maybe it's consuming too much sports media where people must yell and disagree vehemently with each other(clearly missing the reality TV element to that whole show). I just don't understand the need to have every single opinion on this board be a mirror. That's extremely lame.

Got 'em all riled up again! Too easy. It's hilarious the repeated patterns. Either hubby or SB get their panties in a bunch because people disagree with their worldview, and then they start pitching a hissing fit. Then one comes along to defend the others honor. So cute!

This is probably a bottom 5 OL unit for us historically. Not sure I can come down that road. Also, we have had some really good offenses in our history. The offensive weapons on this unit are excellent but I wouldn't call them the best we have had until they go out and do it. It has the POTENTIAL to be the best. I can agree with that statement.

Oh I don't think it is me that is obsessed with it......

Oh shocker, @iamhubby1 being a little bitch and then @SBBlue coming to defend him. More spooning, gents?

Lance will be the best QB from this draft. They ready talked about how much better he had looked from mini camp to training camp. Everything I heard about him was how much of a chip he has on his shoulder and dedicates himself to improving. I think his intangibles and work ethic will overshadow Lawrence, Wilson and even Fields.