kungfoodude

I don't take your schtick too seriously. I know a troll when I see one. At your worst you induce eye rolling in me. Mostly I just chuckle(no pun intended).

I can get the annoying factor but he is almost permanent satire at this point. On the other hand, the ridiculous Darnold superfans/Cam superfans/Teddy superfans/general player superfan and any other random idiot that comes swooping in every offseason are much less entertaining. Just sad and stupid. And you also have posters who only accidentally post something of value. @Moo Daeng comes to mind.

I actually am generally just amused by the persistent Chuck flare ups. He's moderately more entertaining that some of the other dopes that come in and out of this place.

The most Chuck of all responses. Vehement denial of being Chuck.

Never go full Mike Ditka.

A little surprised Nixon hasn't stood out a little bit more. He was one I thought that had "diamond in the rough" potential early. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that Horn is holding, that was something that he apparently was known for in college. I suspect he is gonna struggle with that all season while he tries to break old habits. Also, it's rare for rookie CB's to be stellar, so I am not gonna get all over him unless he still has the same bad habits in year 3, 4, etc. So not much to write home about Hubbard either? How about our LS battle?

How do you rank the rookies so far?

You can see the impact from the collision and Erving gets hucked by the far smaller man that doesn't have a head of steam behind him. Was he put of position and off balance? Yes. But he was also trying to shoulder through him and literally got blown up by a guy a 40 lbs heavier than half his weight. That's bad, bro. Greg Little bad.

I don't think it is the tinfoil hat brigade. They were saying that they believe this injury may stretch back to his high school days. Actually sounds familiar, remember that Cam was playing on a bum wheel for a bunch of seasons(I believe it was back since college) that he eventually had surgery on in 2014.

The big disappointments would more so be Little(already locked in) and Christensen, I suppose. Really, we shouldn't expect the world out of late rounds picks and UDFA's like Brown, Moore and Daley. If you hit on one of every 10 of those guys, you are doing pretty well. Eventually we are going to actually need to invest some draft picks on that OL. All these overpaid, backup journeyman just aren't going to cut it long term. I never thought I would look at this year's(prospective) starting OL and be less enthusiastic than last year. What a mess.

That's kind of what I mean. Yes he was more impressive than what we had but that was a really low bar to hit. IIRC, he was a bit of a mixed bag with more good than bad. Had he been able to get a bunch of game reps, perhaps he is a guy that is a starter for us now. But, that wasn't the way it went unfortunately. With the limited reps, I can say he had potential but I wouldn't stretch it to say he was very good.

It will be disappointing if our younger players can't get past those guys, honestly. I think we all hoped that someone like Daley, Brown, Moore, or Christensen would step up and win at least one of those spots. If Erving and Elflein end up starting, I just can't envision that being an overall net positive. Their ceiling is basically average NFL OL and that is a bit of a stretch.

Really good player?? That seems like a pretty big stretch. Have we really even seen enough of him healthy to say that?

I still suspect we will be seeing Cam Erving at LT. IMO, the time Moton sees at LT is more about filling in when Erving inevitably gets banged up. We will see though. I think all of us would love to see Moton morph into our franchise LT. Something we have all wanted forever.

Well....about that....

I think only Paradis and Moton are guaranteed starters. Camp could end up causing any of the rest of the two deep to shuffle a bunch. IMO, there probably isn't much separation in the top 2(or 3) of the rest of the OL spots. TBD. Even if our starters remain relatively static throughout the camp, I don't know if we will know exactly what that means for at least a few games of the season. I guess ideally even if they are subpar individually they can stay healthy and develop enough chemistry for the sum to be greater than the parts. That's the best case scenario.

That's the thing, I get the BPA but positional value factors in as well. I think the truth is that our team didn't have Slater or Fields rated higher than Horn. I definitely see the attraction to Horn, much more so now that I have seen so much more information on him post-draft. I even see that he is likely the best of the first round CB's. But....will he be better for us than Fields or Slater? TBD.

First round CB's are typically a relatively high bust rate(IIRC, similar to WR). Lower bust rate than QB's, certainly. At the end of the day, our bigger needs with much higher positional value were QB and OT. We will see how it works out but even if Horn is amazing(and I believe he can be), it will hurt for a long time if Slater or Fields become very good players. It's a matter of how much those positions are worth and how much they cost for top shelf players. And it isn't an overwhelming gulf between LT and CB, either. CB is definitely a top 5 position in the modern NFL. WR is still the second highest paying position in the NFL by top 10 average. Game breaking WR's do still hold a lot of value. There are far less stud LT's. The question is if it was a reach. If Fields is a top 10-12 QB in three years, he was the better player. If Slater is a top 5 LT in three years, he was the better player. Even if Horn is a top 5 CB. These are all "to be determined" questions. I personally value QB and LT much higher than CB. The team very obviously did not. And they may even very well be right in the long run but I definitely worry about Fields and Slater because those are guys I would have personally drafted ahead of Horn.

Well, that is a post season discussion more than a preseason discussion. Sometimes starting a rookie isn't necessarily a good thing. On our OL, starting may not mean that much.

He was off balanced but he still shouldn't get flattened at the point of impact by a CB who didn't even have a full head of steam. Make no mistake, that was really bad.

The thing that makes me so annoyed is that reportedly Slater(the guy I wanted in the 1st) is dominating against the Charger pass rushers in one on one's and 11 on 11's. I thought on draft night we would regret either not picking Slater or Fields and if either of them pans out, I still believe that. No disrespect to Horn at all and I think he will be very good for us, but QB's and LT's are extremely hard to find.

Agreed. That's why I have stated numerous times that I don't expect to see a LT on the roster with more than 8 starts. I expect it will be "by platoon" and not for good reasons. I think at least one guard spot will be stable. Probably Miller.