kungfoodude

That's PFF rankings, which are somewhat imperfect. Plus they are limited to recent memory and not historically. IIRC, if you look at the FO rankings(which span a longer period as well) the unit was eclipsed in it's futility by at least another 2-4 Panthers OL's. Even if you look at raw statistics like QB Pressures, sacks, rushing average, etc....this wasn't the Panthers worst. Nor the NFL's worst last season. We just get myopic about it because we had to watch this poo week after week. I will never agree on Corral or any young QB. I don't subscribe to the kid gloves doctrine because I don't believe it matters at all. You are either gonna make it or you aren't. Peyton Manning looked like dogshit when he started right away. Still ended up a HOF player. Brees looked like a bust initially when he played right away. Still ended up as a HOFer. Conversely you can put mediocre QB's in amazing situations and they will fail. See Jimmy Garoppolo.

We literally weren't even the worst OL in the NFL, much less the worst in Panthers history. And, no, I am not buying into starting Darnold......ever. I literally don't want to see him again on the field in this uniform. He is a bottom 3 starting QB in franchise history. I don't want to see him cement a #1 status. Joe Burrow has gotten the fuging poo kicked out of him the past two seasons. If Corral is broken by a bad to mediocre OL, he was probably never gonna be the guy. fug the kid gloves, if the motherfuger can play, let him play. He's a late 3rd round pick, figure it the fug out.

We deserve it. The fall from 2015 to now has been unreal.

Start him. Don't be a fuging pussy, Rhule. Make it happen.

Yeah but that point of view was very obviously stupid regarding Darnold. I mean....it was painfully obvious it wasn't a coaching or talent issue. It was that he didn't understand what he was seeing. But, yes, we definitely should not be expecting better than his best efforts in Cleveland for Baker. At best, he is just not watching a guy that has no business in the NFL.

I assume this is a joke?

He has a ceiling. If we went Jimmy G as a long term guy, it's basically acknowledging that we aren't going to see a Super Bowl or definitely not win one. He can bring some stability but he has a ceiling that doesn't include NFL champion.

That is how I would have ranked them even without this nice breakdown. Kudos on that, BTW. 1. Jimmy G - Quality game managing NFL starter 2. Baker M - Middling, inconsistent gunslinger. Borderline NFL starter. 3. Sam Darnold - NFL backup, at best. Likely out of the league in the next 2-3 seasons.

Playing these guys more in minicamp isn't going to be the difference between a winning season or a losing season. Also, there is no reason to go full, old school "make 'em practice 'till they puke." That a bunch of old dumb mentality. It doesn't make you tougher. If you aren't tough now having ascended to the NFL....you just aren't tough.

I genuinely don't believe it would be a competition at all. One of those guys is an subpar NFL starter and one is not an NFL player at all. The results may be fairly similar but one is going to look like he at least understands what is going on in front of him. He just chooses to make unwise gambles. The other guy can't figure out what he is seeing and freezes.

In the scenario that Baker balls out and has a "near Pro Bowl caliber" season(which I think is probably about his ceiling), I would still only be interested in maybe a 1-2 year "prove it again" deal. He has never had consecutive solid seasons in a row. Investing significant capital in that is criminally stupid. I suspect it would just be seeing someone be much easier to watch than Sam Darnold but still failing enough to have fairly little impact on the W's and L's. Like I said from the start, I am okay with a very cheap Baker trade because I literally don't want to see any more Sam Darnold Panthers football. That is my entire attraction to the deal. It has nothing to do with me thinking he is the future or will lead us to the playoffs. I just want something more interesting to watch in 2022 than Sam Darnold. Season 1 of that was trash. Let's go ahead and cancel that show now.

It's not lateral. He is significantly better than Darnold. Baker is a below average NFL starting QB which is considerably better than Sam Darnold.

I mean, I don't know who would think Baker would have blown the doors off at the Jets, I assume you since you brought it up. I would be shocked if Baker was better than his best season in Cleveland. But he really only needs to be fairly bad to be better than Darnold. People forget that the "better than" bar is close to a franchise low for us. The appeal of Baker is primarily: 1. Not Sam Darnold. 2. Keeps us from having to watch Sam Darnold. 3. Not a complete idiot on the field like Sam Darnold. 4. Should be pretty cheap. 5. Only on a one year deal. If he's cheap, also that it is a low risk and low cost gamble on achieving something close to mediocrity. Which, it's been 4 years since we even saw anything close to mediocre.

I think the biggest difference is that Baker has actually had some success at the NFL level. Darnold has quite literally never been successful at all. Baker is a streaky, gunslinger in an era that doesn't favor that playing style at all. Darnold is a non-NFL caliber QB. He's in the Leaf/Russell category of massive busts that are incapable of playing in the NFL at all.

I will say that anyone stumping for Darnold in 2021 and against Baker in 2022 has some explaining to do. Especially if we get Baker at a fraction of the price.

Yeah, he's a streaky gunslinger. Winston light. Great arm talent, sometimes can't get out of his own way. But when he is on, he's fun to watch.

Mayfield to an immediate long term contract should be a storming BOA level event. We can't keep being this dumb.

I mean, what does it really matter? This group has accomplished 10 wins in two years. If he nukes the chemistry there what are we truly losing, at this point? I don't think he is anywhere near the locker room cancer that people make him out to be. Even if he is, maybe he will be the tank commander to put us into a top 3 draft pick and get a real franchise QB prospect.

I wouldn't be upset at Baker and Corral heading into the season. At least we have two chances to be hopeful about the future, even as fleeting and/or foolhardy as those hopes might be. I just don't want to see another down of Sam Darnold football. He completely ruins the Panthers experience.

It's possible. The rumors were that Cam was forced on Rhule last year, as well. He definitely acted as if that was the case. But we also know that he ended up liking Cam, supposedly. It may not be that he is as concerned about a "toxic personality" as much as he is concerned about someone that is a big personality and might have more credibility with his younger players. After all, Rhule is an EXTREMELY inexperienced NFL coach with an extremely track record so far. Imagine if you get a couple of big personality shrewd veterans that can pretty easily see through his BS and not be as subservient. That might sour the players on him even without being "toxic."

Possibly. I don't mind just watching a moderately more competent QB at this point. The odds are we are going to be pretty bad in 2022, so at least some level of intrigue would make the games watchable for a while. But, I would say the same about Corral starting, as well.

Oh he's definitely an improvement. The question is how much?

Sources keep reporting that there is disagreement in the building on Baker. Some want him and some don't. I think the question is who is pro-Baker and who is anti-Baker? If we do or don't get him, it's not really going to matter. It's just a matter of trying to discern who has the most stroke on the personnel moves(and if it has actually changed). Also speculating on motivations for the move. Even if we knew who was more pro or anti Baker, it wouldn't come close to the complete picture. It's the offseason, so it's just conversation fodder, basically. It's not going to mean anything until after next season is over anyway. Once we know the actual results of whatever happens.

Yeah but he was also the "spray and pray" at QB guy, so it doesn't necessarily NOT fit. Remember that we almost took two QB's in the draft. My guess is that Fitterer views this as a situation where having multiple shots at a QB increases the chances of getting a hit. That is if he indeed is the primary guy pushing for Baker. Which, if Rhule is once again pushing for another QB, this is just shades of the past and there isn't any real change in the power dynamic between Fitterer and Rhule, as was rumored.

Well I am starting from the assumption(which is not wise considering the Darnold move) that the draft capital we are offering is pretty low(5th round or later). The one year rental makes sense if you are about to get fired. There is a level of everyone involved here probably realizing that the end may well be nigh if they keep losing at the rate they are. It doesn't move the needle as far as actual future of the franchise but it might buy you a little bit more breathing room if it works out. The mentor thing is completely overblown by just about every fan in existence. Darnold isn't there to mentor anyone. Baker wouldn't be here to mentor anyone. You are there fighting for your job. Doesn't mean that you don't learn because you are in the same QB room but the idea that you keep a QB around to specifically teach a younger QB for the future doesn't work as well in reality. I'd say it's much more akin to a "learn by watching."