kungfoodude

Capers was starting from scratch. Seifert took over a 4-12 team. Fox took over a 1-15 team. Rivera took over a 2-14 team. Rhule took over a 5-11 team.

Yeah, pretty sure you just simply don't understand what the point of this thread is at all.

I haven't checked the PFF breakdown but I am willing to bet that the OL performed slightly better than the previous week.

Well....it went better than the current rebuild. That's the stats you are staring at in the initial post. That's kind of the point.

Were we rebuilding in 1999 after a 4-12 season? Were we rebuilding in 2002 after a 1-15 season? Were we rebuilding in 2011 after a 2-14 season?

Using Football Outsiders Offensive Line Adjusted Line Yards(Running Performance) and Adjusted Sack Rate(Pass Blocking performance) from 1996 to 2021, here are the rankings of each unit: 1996: 12th, 17th 1997: 2nd, 13th 1998: 17th, 24th 1999: 20th, 19th 2000: 31st, 31st 2001: 22nd, 8th 2002: 29th, 27th 2003: 12th, 9th 2004: 24th, 8th 2005: 13th, 9th 2006: 23rd, 16th 2007: 19th, 15th 2008: 8th, 9th 2009: 18th, 18th 2010: 27th, 31st 2011: 5th, 21st 2012: 30th, 21st 2013: 14th, 25th 2014: 27th, 22nd 2015: 12th, 21st 2016: 25th, 19th 2017: 25th, 19th 2018: 11th, 9th 2019: 17th, 28th 2020: 13th, 17th 2021: 23rd, 23rd So, in 26 years that breaks down as such: Top 8 Running Unit: 11.5% Top 8 Pass Protection Unit: 7.7% Top 8 Run/Pass Unit: 0% Bottom 8 Running Unit: 26.9% Bottom 8 Pass Protection Unit: 19.2% Bottom 8 Run/Pass Unit: 11.5%

Note: This does not include interim coach Perry Fewell's 0-4 record in 2019. I will update this periodically through the season to track Rhule's ranking. 1. Dom Capers - 0.594 2. John Fox - 0.563 3. George Seifert - 0.469 4. Ron Rivera - 0.406 5. Matt Rhule - 0.400

I will be honest, this was why I was initially very dead set against the idea of a teardown and rebuild after the 2019 disaster. I thought it would be better to bring in an experienced, solid NFL coach to right the ship as we retooled. The fear being that we became mired in rebuilding perpetually, as most franchises who opt for a complete teardown end up doing. I will say the talent we have stockpiled is impressive but the results and blunders are very reminiscent of those dysfunctional franchises. I am beginning to think we are in that class but just haven't realized it yet.

I think the roster has clearly gotten much better from 2019 to 2021. It's a very talented group that should be capable of winning with a competent QB, a competent OL and competent coaching. Without those....it's what we are seeing.

Right, the larger point being that franchise dysfunction can last multiple decades if you aren't careful. Keep in mind, while everyone was laughing at the Browns and their QB search during those years, they kept stockpiling highly drafted and talented players. In the end, almost all of them were squandered. I just hope this isn't the beginning of that sort of era for us.

7. The Browns started 5. The Browns have a worse winning percentage(which may change in the next 12 games of 2021) but actually had one winning season and a playoff berth in that span. We have little to no shot of that.

Yep. Eventually it was the guys you picked. Given how few of the players are still here from 2019, they are just about all Rhule's guys now.

Yeah, I actually posted a thread in the main forum after I took a look at the 2018-2021 Panthers and compared it to the 1999-2002 Browns. Ouch.

I'm less afraid of that than I would be the 2003-2017 span the Browns had before turning it around. That's kind of my point.

Starting QB's over that span(5): Tim Couch, Ty Detmer, Doug Pederson, Spergon Wynn, Kelly Holcomb Winning Seasons: 1 Winning Percentage: 0.328 Playoff Berths: 1 2018-2021* Carolina Panthers Starting QB's over that span(7): Cam Newton, Taylor Heinicke, Kyle Allen, Will Grier, Teddy Bridgewater, PJ Walker, Sam Darnold Winning Seasons: 0 Winning Percentage: 0.385 Playoff Berths: 0 *using the first seven games of this season only

I don't mean current Browns, I mean 1999 to 2017 Browns. The period of 2 winning seasons and roughly 20-25 different QB's that started games.

The one thing I will at least give PJ is that he is decisive with the ball and he doesn't hold onto it like Darnold seems to. Now, it's a 60/40 good to bad decisions with the pass and about 40/60 good to bad passes. So, if we can somehow combine Darnold and PJ into one player, we'd have a QB as good as Brock Osweiler.

I'm in. If we have a plan to fix that OL and not completely gut the defense, count me in.

If that is your bar to hit and you are drafting a QB based on that, we will be the Cleveland Browns.

I would warn anyone who is a big fan of Willis to go look at his performances in losses. It isn't pretty.

That's kind of what I am trying to get across. There isn't a Plan B here at the moment. That's why all the smoke about Watson is getting thicker. PJ was never a real option, even had Darnold gotten injured as opposed to just simply being awful. It's Darnold or someone not on our roster. We aren't going to see PJ until the last couple of games of the season, regardless of how terrible Darnold is.

He has given up on Darnold. The problem is there isn't an option other than Darnold. He knows it, Brady knows it, the owner knows it, his teammates know it. It's written on their faces, it's obvious in their actions/reactions and they are all but stating it publicly.

Yeah, they are all but saying, "Hey, we fuged this up and there isn't much we can do to fix it. This guy sucks."

Well what do you expect him to do? Start PJ? That isn't better. He doesn't have any options on the roster. Until those other options present themselves(Watson or trade or FA signing) these are the two turds we have. That's it.