kungfoodude

Well, that is the point. That WAS the sell. That isn't what we ended up getting.

Depends on what you view as a needle mover. I think the offense would be definitively better with AT involved. Better enough to string together a bunch of wins? Highly unlikely. Luvu didn't want to be here. Which, coincidentally, neither in the end did AT.

Eh...I am not gonna call anything after one draft. It looks slightly better so far but I am not prepared to say good.

Yeah, upon review, this is correct.

This ain't the first time that has been throw around in here. It's funny every time it comes up. WeLl ThEy ArE pRoFeSsIoNaLz!!! YoU cAn'T dO aNy BeTtEr!!!!! I mean, I can't do much worse either, right? I could have told you Bill Belichick was a bad hire, and I did when it came up. I could have told you Matt Rhule was a bad hire, and I did. I could have told you that XL was a bad pick, and I did. Etc, etc. It's the idea that far too many fans CAN come up with better and more reasonable solutions that infuriates us.

Fan belief in him is substantially less important than his belief in himself. That seems to be the issue at the moment, he has very little of that.

There isn't 5 pages worth of discussing AT in Min. I think it just happened the normal way, someone brought up Bryce being at fault in reference to past AT/current WR performance and then the anti-Bryce contingent started in on the homers. Pretty much the usual.

The issue with that "lightning in a bottle" is that's too close to Dilfer/Foles/Delhomme/etc for a top 5-10 QB contract. It's crippling to the roster eventually at that price tag. It's a pricier QB purgatory. Bryce's ceiling was supposed to be a Brees type guy. Sees the field extremely well, makes quick decisions with the ball and analyzes the situation pre-snap at an elite level. None of this has transpired at all. Not to mention, his physical ceiling is far closer to a non-athletic Doug Flutie or poor man's Colt McCoy. That is not a long term NFL QB.

The worry with CJ is that he is Trevor Lawrence. That's basically the worst case NFL QB scenario. Supreme talent and flashes enough to get a top 8 QB contract but never really truly improves to much more than a slightly above average NFL starter with an elite price tag. So, while we definitely got the lesser of the two QB's, it is possible we don't end up as badly, depending on Stroud's ultimate career arc. Bryce will never see that kind of contract, so we ducked that, at least.

I think the sample size is pretty small to say much of anything. I saw enough to say that I would rather gives some more snaps to them. DJ Wonnum and Pat Jones II aren't going to be franchise players. They are depth/role players.

That's true but that wasn't what you were implying nor what you were arguing. I don't care one way or the othet because ultimately the W's and L's likely would remain the same. I just get annoyed at this jilted lover/little brother Panther fan syndrome about guys that want to leave IF they were productive here. That feeling doesn't change the facts about thoss players(Luvu comes to mind).

Not to burst your bubble but he was first in 2023 and 4th in 2024 on our team in YAC. Not trying in any way to suggest he is a YAC guy but 100% of the arguments you are making are basically invalid simply because his high production level here didn't have to do with his ability to be an elite WR. His production has been because he is frequently the only above average NFL receiver that we have had almost every time he has been on the field as a Panther. The exceptions are probably the short Dionte Johnson period we had and likely would have been TMac, were he still here.

Well most of their struggles have been playing better teams(Jax is arguable) so far. Combined opponent records of 7-2. Stroud's struggles have largely been lack of WR options(injuries), the extremely poor OL play(tied for 8th in most sacks, and really sloppy/poor offensive play overall. Not to say he isn't part of the issue. As for their seasons so far: Stroud: 76.9 QB Rating, 34.8 QBR, 64.0 PFF, 64.5 QBERT Young: 75.3 QB Rating, 36.3 QBR, 64.0 PFF, 66.9 QBERT They have both been similarly bad this season.

He is firmly a #4 option there. He would still likely be our #1 or #2.

I think you are conflating different things entirely. AT is and was a threat here because he is an extremely crafty and effective veteran WR. We throw/threw to him in scenarios most wouldn't because the other options were unreliable or all too often not open. So, a lot of his production was him making chicken salad out of chicken poo whilst being force fed the ball in a lot of those scenarios. Minnesota doesn't struggle with that. Also, they have been getting dumpster fire level QB play 100% of the season. Unless you truly believe that Justin Jefferson is only also capable of producing the paltry numbers he has(behind TMac in everything but TD's).

Lol. Even as an original "Pro Bryce" guy, I take no solace in the fact that CJ is struggling to regain his rookie magic. He does at least look like a valid NFL QB. Unfortunately, Bryce does not.

They have been pining for a "face" of the franchise after ejecting Cam. Ironically, 100% of the attempts have flopped. Curse of Cam?

Valuable to the team on the field more than the FO. We got quite a haul, all things considered.

I mean, there is some truth to that. JJ has looked pretty rough, even by rookie QB standards.

It's aggressively fine. In my personal experience people from MN are also massive pussies about heat. Also some other generally unsavory qualities about the average Minnesotan, as well.

Yes, because if we had Justin Jefferson, TJ Hockensen, etc then AT would still be a 1k WR. Hence the, "he is way more valuable to us than them."

I don't think he lost any steps from last year even a little bit. The steps you are talking about he lost several years ago.