kungfoodude

I will be honest, this was why I was initially very dead set against the idea of a teardown and rebuild after the 2019 disaster. I thought it would be better to bring in an experienced, solid NFL coach to right the ship as we retooled. The fear being that we became mired in rebuilding perpetually, as most franchises who opt for a complete teardown end up doing. I will say the talent we have stockpiled is impressive but the results and blunders are very reminiscent of those dysfunctional franchises. I am beginning to think we are in that class but just haven't realized it yet.

I think the roster has clearly gotten much better from 2019 to 2021. It's a very talented group that should be capable of winning with a competent QB, a competent OL and competent coaching. Without those....it's what we are seeing.

Right, the larger point being that franchise dysfunction can last multiple decades if you aren't careful. Keep in mind, while everyone was laughing at the Browns and their QB search during those years, they kept stockpiling highly drafted and talented players. In the end, almost all of them were squandered. I just hope this isn't the beginning of that sort of era for us.

7. The Browns started 5. The Browns have a worse winning percentage(which may change in the next 12 games of 2021) but actually had one winning season and a playoff berth in that span. We have little to no shot of that.

Yep. Eventually it was the guys you picked. Given how few of the players are still here from 2019, they are just about all Rhule's guys now.

Yeah, I actually posted a thread in the main forum after I took a look at the 2018-2021 Panthers and compared it to the 1999-2002 Browns. Ouch.

I'm less afraid of that than I would be the 2003-2017 span the Browns had before turning it around. That's kind of my point.

Starting QB's over that span(5): Tim Couch, Ty Detmer, Doug Pederson, Spergon Wynn, Kelly Holcomb Winning Seasons: 1 Winning Percentage: 0.328 Playoff Berths: 1 2018-2021* Carolina Panthers Starting QB's over that span(7): Cam Newton, Taylor Heinicke, Kyle Allen, Will Grier, Teddy Bridgewater, PJ Walker, Sam Darnold Winning Seasons: 0 Winning Percentage: 0.385 Playoff Berths: 0 *using the first seven games of this season only

I don't mean current Browns, I mean 1999 to 2017 Browns. The period of 2 winning seasons and roughly 20-25 different QB's that started games.

The one thing I will at least give PJ is that he is decisive with the ball and he doesn't hold onto it like Darnold seems to. Now, it's a 60/40 good to bad decisions with the pass and about 40/60 good to bad passes. So, if we can somehow combine Darnold and PJ into one player, we'd have a QB as good as Brock Osweiler.

I'm in. If we have a plan to fix that OL and not completely gut the defense, count me in.

If that is your bar to hit and you are drafting a QB based on that, we will be the Cleveland Browns.

I would warn anyone who is a big fan of Willis to go look at his performances in losses. It isn't pretty.

That's kind of what I am trying to get across. There isn't a Plan B here at the moment. That's why all the smoke about Watson is getting thicker. PJ was never a real option, even had Darnold gotten injured as opposed to just simply being awful. It's Darnold or someone not on our roster. We aren't going to see PJ until the last couple of games of the season, regardless of how terrible Darnold is.

He has given up on Darnold. The problem is there isn't an option other than Darnold. He knows it, Brady knows it, the owner knows it, his teammates know it. It's written on their faces, it's obvious in their actions/reactions and they are all but stating it publicly.

Yeah, they are all but saying, "Hey, we fuged this up and there isn't much we can do to fix it. This guy sucks."

Well what do you expect him to do? Start PJ? That isn't better. He doesn't have any options on the roster. Until those other options present themselves(Watson or trade or FA signing) these are the two turds we have. That's it.

It isn't coddling. They all know and have known he isn't the guy but they made their bed and they get to lie in it. It isn't just bad that they chose a QB completely incapable of being successful in the NFL, they also chose a backup QB who is as bad or worse.

Darnold would struggle behind the Dallas OL and with the Dallas running game. His issues aren't related to what happened to him, they are related to who he is as a player. And, really, why would anyone think he could suddenly just be an NFL QB after just one full season as a HS QB and two seasons as a college QB? Even at USC his disappointing RS sophomore season was blamed on coaching. So, at USC, the Jets and now here in Carolina it was always the coaches fault? His career and the idea of his talent was made on one year at USC, where he was playing with a ton of talent around him. It was never real.

Billionaires win by fixing the system. Ask Bob Kraft.

He isn't shell shocked, he literally isn't capable of processing what he sees on the field. He isn't capable of being a QB in the NFL. Go watch the All 22 of every game this year and watch how many times he misses reads or is late on throws because he just simply can't see it. Want to make it worse? Do the same and mark down every time he was legitimately pressured while missing those reads. You'll immediately understand why this was never going to work.

Our future was compromised when they decided to trade picks for Sam Darnold and extend him. That hurt our chances of improving the OL through the draft in 2022. The loss of cap space for Darnold hurt our chances to sign better OL and to resign core players. The future was compromised when we signed Teddy Bridgewater to a large contract. The future was compromised when we spent all 2021 offseason making poor decisions at OL after watching them hurt the team in 2020. Make no mistake, the future was already compromised.

Yep. I have been saying that quite a bit. They can't wrap their head around why you need very good to elite players that play at very good to elite levels. They assume they can just motivate and teach talented guys to get the most out of them. This isn't pee wee football, it isn't high school football and it isn't college football. It is pure hubris. They believe they can succeed with players that have already failed or they believe they can take guys 90% of the league don't think can be successful and make them successful.

It is completely between the ears. He isn't unlike other bust QB's in that regard.