kungfoodude

Sure but how many genuinely successful NFL starting QB's are this bad for this long before figuring it out? Let's be honest, almost none of them get this many opportunities with their original drafted team.

Okay, do you just want to use that initial group of QB's that you posted or would you like to modify that any(add/subtract)?

But isn't that sort of what we are getting at? Having 1-3 average or better games per season is what you expect from your #2 QB, not a starting QB. Especially when most of the rest of the performances are mediocre to extremely bad. There are very few QB's in the NFL that can say that at the moment. That's basically less productive, Jets era Sam Darnold.

He is having a modestly better season than Geno but Geno is a better QB. I will say that Geno also leads the league in sacks. Not to mention his season has been more efficient Bryce with more TO's so far. Hence why their QB Ratings are very close(87.9 vs. 84.5).

Pick your metrics. Do you want basic QB metrics, per game averages, advanced metrics? I can break down whatever you like but when I try to do this as a "general" thing then people immediately say that they don't like the stats. So, pick yours and we will take a look but I am going to add other statistical context that I think it relevant, although open for debate.

By year 2 Allen already had eclipsed the numbers Bryce is on pace for now. By year three, he was a Pro Bowler and MVP candidate.

I sure have. In most of those cases the statistical argument is extremely clear that even this season they are better than Bryce and in some cases you have QB's playing at or near the bottom end of their career results but basically being slightly worse or better than Bryce in his career best year. The damning thing comes when you look at total body of work. Then it becomes obvious that all those QB's are a minimum of a tier above Bryce if not more than one tier above him. I understand that we have seen blips of very good and good Bryce play this season but it's been very fleeting, similar to 2023 and 2024. Even at his "career bests" he would be on pace to have a very underwhelming season by non-Bryce standards.

Geno, Tua, Purdy, Stroud, Lawrence, Williams are so clearly better than Bryce as to be comical. Flacco I can give you but that's also due to his extreme age. He really is a backup QB at this stage. It was simply that Cleveland had no good options. McCarthy seems clearly worse. Saints QB's and Penis Jr. is definitely a good argument. I think the thing they have in their favor(not Rattler) is lacking the amount of film to conclusively say if they are clearly better or worse. But that still makes Bryce a very clear bottom 5 QB.

Well Fields lost his job and so did Dillon Gabriel, basically. That leaves ol "Nine" as the guy that seems to be definitively worse than Bryce. Ward, Sanders(assuming him as new starter), Dart, Shough and even Penis Jr. are TBD's. JJ is sort of like Bryce in that he has been so incredibly bad so early that you really question what his ceiling even is.

Yeah, I am not saying he is doing anything wrong. I just didn't like the move by the front office. It felt panicked.

I mean, did Bryce ever become a prince for more than a game or two at a time? I am not advocating in any way, shape or form for Sanders as a starter. If he was available for nickels and could compete in camp, I would be fine having him. I don't view him as any sort of savior and he is another guy that has some legit physical limitations and a TON of work to do getting faster and more decisive with his reads. I can't say given sample size he is better than Bryce....yet. But that ain't much in the way of bars to clear. Hence why I am so perplexed by the Kyler arguments here. I mean.....who in the world would even question the fact that he is a better QB than Bryce? And, once again, that doesn't make him good. It makes him better than one of the worst starting QB's in the past 5 or so years.

I was gonna say depth. The experience those guys have is minimal.

I mean, I keep trying to get this point across but it's wild how there doesn't exist any statistic on this planet that shows Bryce to be better than Kyler nor apparently any reasonable measure at all other than, "Cause I said so." Well, I guess if that's the way you want to make an argument, I can just never be wrong at all. Sounds pretty familiar in this modern society we have here.....

Both statistically and the "eye test" lean extremely heavily towards Kyler. Kyler is extremely, extremely, EXTREMELY clearly a better overall QB than Bryce. There is literally no compelling argument to be made because no one has been able to make one other than "I don't like him!" Is he a top 20 QB? Probably not. But compared to Bryce, he's a very good QB.

He is a choker with a much, much higher career winning percentage, so it has been fairly minor. If we called all Bryce's bad performances "choking" he would be nearing NFL career worst levels. So, yeah, pretty minor. Okay, but Bryce is consistently bad and extremely bad under pressure. Those things have showed up on the stat sheet. It's been the 0.325 career winning percentage

Yeah, I am not saying I thought he was a strong prospect by any means. I generally didn't think too highly of him(nor this QB class overall). He has, to date, far exceeded my expectations for him in year 1.

I mean, again, based on what? Kyler is tremendously more physically skilled, he sees the field far better, he is more efficient as a passer, his throwing mechanics are better, his decision making is better, etc, etc. He is a choker and he is brittle but those are basically the two minor advantages that Bryce has. Aside from that, literally nothing. I am asking WHY you think he is the better QB when almost every available measure that anyone could possibly use says quite the opposite?

Eh, even if Shough takes 2-3 years to adjust, you should reasonably expect him to provide at least a decade of solid play IF he pans out. That puts him in his mid-late 30's which is increasingly when a lot of these guys seem to be exiting their useful years. poo, sign me up for that.

I don't think there will be much trouble with the contract considering 2026 is the end of his guaranteed money and his 2026 salary(currently) would make him somewhere near the Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield area of AAV. So, bottom of the top 20 and just inside the backup, low caliber QB range of QB pay. Like I said, don't be surprised if he gets moved. What was the reason he went to the bench? Do you even remember? Lol....100% emotional, dude. Listen we disagree from time to time and I always enjoy a debate but you aren't even attempting a compelling argument at all. Bryce is demonstrably a worse NFL QB than Kyler Murray. And that shouldn't be some brag point for Kyler. That's being compared to a guy that is probably not a top 40 roster NFL QB.

You just keep going back to an emotional argument and one not based in anything football related. So, which one is going to be the starter and which one isn't? Also, how confident in that prediction are you?

But winning games is a bad metric? Because one has a much better career winning percentage. So if you aren't as good statistically and you lose considerably more.....you are the better QB??? Again, please help me find any logic in this argument.

I am not sure why any source would be particularly useful on free agency moves during the season but I will just say, I think you will see.

College football is an extremely poor comparison. Also, by "right now" do you mean this season? Because one of those two QB's has no statistical argument for being better than Baker Mayfield. I don't think this is about stats, records or anything on the football field. You just like Bryce Young and you dislike Kyler Murray. But that isn't an argument based in any football reality, it's just your personal feelings.

As a FREE AGENT, absolutely so. He would be an insanely big upgrade from Bryce. We would finally have a QB capable of performing the upper 90% of NFL starters. Price depending, obviously. That being said, I would say the odds of Murray being a free agent are a lot smaller than you think. His odds of being moved are far higher than the odds of him being cut. They have until March 22nd to move him or his 2027 base salary is guaranteed.

I think that is the difference between elite guys and JAG's(or worse). The elite guys are better able to make those adjustments quickly. Certainly, one can argue that development can be hindered by the team/franchise but the cream does fairly consistently seem to keep rising.