kungfoodude

If you look at a lot of their career statistics, Horn isn't far behind Surtain. I think Surtain is a far more sure tackler and is beaten badly a lot less often. Horn produces more INT's but also get beat pretty badly more frequently. Surtain fits the "shutdown" mold. In this defense Horn is a little bit more of a gambling/Josh Norman type CB.

Burns hurt us ample times by loafing and being a nonfactor. You don't have the benefits attributed to having an elite pass rusher when they disappear from games. Horn has lapses but has had far longer stretches of very good to elite play than Burns ever has.

538 did a great breakdown on how he was the greatest average NFL QB in history. I think that is accurate.

Agreed. I mean, how much more evidence does one need? He has made extremely marginal improvements over a three year starting career. Even the "best of Bryce" at the end of last year was still below league average. So, if that's what we are ultimately chasing....what is the goal here? Is it to make the franchise better long term or prove that your chosen one is a franchise QB by just stubbornly refusing to accept anything otherwise? This whole situation stinks because I just don't see a light at the end of this tunnel, no matter what happens with the team itself. They seem to believe Bryce is the guy and that's just what it is. So....fug it....let's at least win the division. Hell, it will be fun to needle the Saints, Falcons and Bucs fans that they couldn't even get past a Bryce Young led team.

His knock was that when he played any sort of level up in competition he looked completely lost and unable to deal with the competition level change. That should and did scare a LOT of teams. His abilities were arguably the best in that draft but he did play like a Day 3 pick in college. It's clear that the development at the NFL level has helped tremendously. And probably aided by being a long term backup. He is the exact type of player that needs that development route.

If you recall correctly, he was the longest debate last year in the HOF committee. I think that likely means there are some pretty strong supporters AND detractors. I think he will get in eventually but I don't think this is the class to do it.

Eli getting in before Luke would directly fly in the face of the changes that were made to limit "less elite" players from getting in.

I don't think you would see Bryce shine in San Fran. He might be better than here but he doesn't have any of the abilities that Purdy or Jones have. Even if you put him in the perfect situation, his ceiling is very low. His floor is an abyss.

Some of their premier guys are definitely aging but unfortunately a lot of their best ones are still quite young.

You might want to take a look at that Bucs roster again. It's no slouch. Definitely better top to bottom than Atlanta. Both are significantly better than our roster.

And that is another extension of the evaluation problem that plagues this franchise. All that fault lies with the Tepper-Morgan-Canales "braintrust." You will get the final word on those three when you see what they decide to do at QB this offseason. If we stand pat, it's safe to say that Tepper hasn't changed, Dan is just an extension of Fitterer and at the very best, Canales is a yes man. The story has largely been written. It's just about what chapter they all choose to accept the ending.

This is Bryce's first three years starting versus Pennington's first three years starting(he was on the bench for 2 seasons prior).

It took them long enough. It was pretty evident after last season he was a bust. He has literally done nothing but continue to hammer that home all season long.

That's a very obvious example because we so clearly made the wrong choice. But it works perfectly here and is a cautionary tale of why you never take physical attributes with low skill level over extremely high skill level with lesser physical attributes.

I think the Bucs are actually a more talented overall team.

I agree. I am long over the draft position thing. Good front offices are good at evaluations. They can get players. Bad teams consistently draft in the top 10 because they fail at evaluations often. There is no rational argument to root against your own team in this scenario.

I don't think that is a valid worry. IMO, they have been sold on him almost the entire season and that isn't going to change, win or lose. It's just a matter of time. Hopefully they figure it out by the time a contract extension comes up and don't saddle us with a deathstroke for this revision of the franchise.

Is none of the above an option??

I am not forcing fanhood, I am just pointing out that you probably left that behind and it isn't likely to come back. That's happened to be before in sports. You think it can be turned on and off but that usually only the case with bandwagoners. If you were a hardcore fan, once that goes away, it rarely ever comes back. But make no mistake, there is nothing to gain from losing and missing the playoffs. At really any level.

Darnold has always been brimming with ability. It was experience(people forget how incredibly football inexperienced he was/is) and largely between the ears. The first part he is starting to get past, the second is a mountain he has yet to climb. Truthfully, based on experience, he should have been a Day 3 pick and been left to develop on rosters for several years to get up to the experience even required to play NFL QB. Bryce is considerably different. He has zero of the natural ability that Darnold has. His edge was supposed to be that wealth of experience and his mental abilities to break down the game at an elite level. Well, none of that has transpired and he appears to have some of the exact same mental issues that Darnold does and then some. He is one of the least confident QB's that has ever played here. He does not trust his ability to make NFL level throws.

You are basically describing what I just said, though. If your only motivation is to "make fun of the team" then I think it's basically over for your fanhood. Hence why it's perplexing why anyone would want us to lose. Maybe if you were a Bucs fan that would make sense but not as a Panthers fan.

He has never been a fan. It was always fake.

Yes but that doesn't prohibit you from being a very effective player. It can mean that you will be played differently in coverage to limit you but that's still going to have skill and usage elements that can nullify it. Point being that I am never going to get overly caught up on the "too small" narrative if the player has elite attributes that are greater than those physical limitations. That's the issue with Bryce. All of the supposed "elite" attributes turned out to be vaporware. So now you get left with a small, physically limited player that has little in the way of skills. Nightmare scenario. Horn is both fast and quick. Yes he is slight but if he were elite in other aspects(vision, route running, hand fighting, hand eye coordination, etc) that would be very much less significant.

This local player crap is how we have whiffed on several guys. College sports fans are fickle and they aren't real professional sports fans. When whatever bum 9th stringer they care about gets cut, they will jump to supporting whatever team had their bum 8th stringer still on the roster. This is particularly true of Clemson/South Carolina fans. Attempting to court college fans is a pointless exercise. You will gather far more fair weather and potential long term fans if you just fuging win games.

I think you are basically describing not being a fan of the team anymore. Do you watch the games on a week to week basis?