kungfoodude

We need to give up on this season pretty soon. If you worry about the rookie, then bench him. This is the reality of being on the worst team in the NFL. It's gonna suck.

He is a shell of his former self but what did they expect hiring a guy his age? They either have to get on board with being a big boy(which means spending SOOOOO much more money than they do now) or just accepting that they aren't a football power. It sounds like a slight but this is literally the reality for like 90% of all college football. Hence why I have always hated college football. It is the most fundamentally unfair system that college sports had ever created.

It isn't impossible. Remember that Florida won titles in football and basketball in close proximity. The issue is that it will always be tough when you are such a heavily one sport school. Look at Duke this year. That team is so fuging good. Look at the stands. It's embarrassing.

It's easy to dunk on that old man but really UNC has never been poo outside of his time there so I think he deserves some level of respect. UNC will never be a football power. They don't build for that. Mack got them as close as they will get. This isn't a UNC specific jab. Almost all college football teams fit in this category.

Yeah, hence why we were morons to turn it down. That isn't coming around again. The tag has no value if the player doesn't want to be here. Burns will either hold out or just wait until he can leave on his own. So in a situation where we have no ability to resign a guy, how do you think those negotiations with other teams are going to go? The teams that know we have no choice but to move him for SOMETHING just to make sure we don't let him walk with no compensation. This poo isn't checkers, it's chess. The Panthers are playing tic tac toe.

I agree. I think he is just over being here and I really doubt that changes. I can't say I blame him. I also don't think that is really a revelation to the league as a whole. Hence why I say Burns and the rest of the NFL can see all our cards. Our leverage is basically nothing.

I live in Raleigh and I have PSL's. I'm good. It wouldn't be better in the Triangle.

You sure about that? Seen us recently? Never underestimate what we can do to ourselves.

They aren't the worst defensively this season. They do have 4 teams in the top 25 scoring defenses. That list is loaded with Big Ten teams. Does anyone really believe they are are that good defensively or is it because the Big Ten has fuging absolute dog poo offensive football again? I lean heavy Pac 12 this year because they have one of the deepest top tier QB pools I have seen recently. It's an insane list of college elite or near elite talent. That's really why I think they are the best.

Yep. The plan can be the best in the world but it may not hold up to live fire. It just is what it is. There is no sense dwelling on the pick at the moment. We can use it to fling onto the "fire Fitt" pile but we are in the poo now. It's not changing. Better try and make the best of it.

I can understand that thought process but if you come in and can play, then it is was it is. I mean Aaron Rodgers literally didn't become a starter until he was 25. Delhomme came here and was no spring chicken. Kurt Warner, Geno Smith, Jeff Garcia, etc, etc. There are examples of older QB's making it finally as NFL starting QB's. The biggest factor should be if you have the skills to play and how ready you are for it. Or you could keep beating the "he's so young!" Sam Darnold drum. I care way less about your age than if you can play in this league.

The difference is that the Pac 12 is the best conference this time. It's no different than the Big 12 QB's that put up numbers all the time because of how insane those offenses usually are.

I mean, take your shot if you can. I don't blame them for moving up. Maybe hindsight will be kind to the move or maybe we look like the franchise we have been. Nothing is guaranteed. Remember when Luck went back? Williams very well could. Maybe Maye does too. You just never know.

We SHOULD get a first rounder for him. I believe there is almost no scenario we get two firsts. That ship sailed.

Funny that our last coaching staff somehow got all these guys that are looking like hammered dogshit to play very well. Maybe all it takes is simply looking at the pieces on your chess board and realizing that having them in pass sets for 40+ snaps a game doesn't really suit them. We build a road grading OL. Let them line up and physically dominate people.

I literally said he is a top 10-12 pass rusher. Is that not an elite guy? The difference is that he isn't one of the pass rushers that just simply takes a game over. Those guys do have elite value. Look at the Khalil Mack trade. That's what trading for an elite pass rusher in their prime looks like. He's also not an elite run stopper, at all. There is definitely a world in which we trade him for way less than two firsts. It is the world where we are in that our GM overvalues his trade value yet somehow undervalues his contract amount. All it takes is for that situation to continue and his value drops every single day. Because the rest of the league can read the tea leaves and just simply wait us out. He isn't going to take $25 mil. He has no reason to take that from us. We showed that we view him as the best defensive player in football, so he has no reason to expect that we shouldn't pay him like that. If he becomes a free agent, I think he will quickly realize he isn't going to command that price tag in free agency(although we are also talking about two years of salary cap bumps, so it's possible he would get close to $30 mil). I know you believe that it is simply a matter of someone just handing over two firsts when he get tagged but that rarely ever happens. Especially because the player has to actually WANT to go to the franchise that is willing to pay that. So why shell out all that draft capital for a guy you have to sign a long term deal for? I'll make a healthy wager that he ends up not being a Panther and he will leave here for way less than two first round draft picks.

My guess is that we trade him as soon as Scott Fitterer is gone. I suspect something in the range of a 1st and 3rd or 4th rounder. Possibly two 2nds. Something far less than what you are describing. If Fitterer sticks around long term, my guess would be changed to he just walks away when we can't tag him anymore and we get absolutely nothing. Or, the real nightmare, we actually sign him for $30+mil a year and we always look back at this as the worst deal we have ever given a DL. Making the Charles Johnson contract look pretty amazing in comparison.

That isn't a sustainable situation. You will be forever awful if you fail in the draft consistently. That issue must be remedied or we will never make it out of the NFL cellar.

Lol. Perfectly timed for an 89 yd DTD to make that narrative shift.

Penix may be the second top Heisman candidate in as many weeks to knock himself out of contention. Being the sole reason you lose a game is an immediate disqualifier for me.

The depth in this class is bananas. Not sure about the top end talent being "generational." Williams isn't as polished as some seem to think. Maye is supremely talented but I am not convinced he is a top tier QB prospect yet. But, going back to UNC would be a bad idea because I don't think he will develop any further there. More of a project than I think most are thinking.

I really doubt many teams in the NFL would have interest in taking him for two firsts if he gets franchised. Our fans massively overrate his market value. He's a top 10-12 pass rusher in the league but two firsts is a haul that is reserved for truly elite players or very high draft positions. The only teams that might make even a little sense for would be someone like the Eagles, Chiefs, 49ers, etc. Teams that expected to have very low first round picks in the next few years. But even that is unlikely because they have cap issues they need to manage already. Not to mention all of these franchises have very well run front offices that actually get pretty good value from their draft picks.

The way to fix this team is: - Get competent front office personnel. - Identify core players that can be retained for market rates or lower(Brown, Luvu, etc) - Move on from assets you don't plan on retaining(Burns, Chinn, etc) to obtain draft capital. - Draft competently. That's literally it. We have no other option but to abandon this idea of "quick fixes" every fuging offseason. Build for the long term. We have to give up on this idea of being a competitive team in the near term. It's unlikely to happen. We were "rebuilt" very poorly by two bad GM's and head coaches. That damage has to be undone and a new core built. We literally already traded away two of our top 4 most valuable roster assets in the last year for draft capital. This process already started anyway.

Burns would never garner 2 1st's. That is an insane price for someone like him. That was a once in a lifetime haul that we will never see again. The reality is that we might get a first rounder for him if we are lucky. Has nothing to do with his talent level. His contract is ending and he wants a fuging pile of money(literally driven by the haul we turned down for him). All anyone has to do is wait it out. He'll either be moved due to holding out in the next couple of seasons or he'll be a free agent. 100% of our leverage with him and on the trade market is gone. We mis-played our hand and now every player at the table sees our cards.

If you are operating under the assumption this is a "young team, not a bad one" then that is the problem. There is very little in the way of young core talent. The two biggest examples of talent are Burns and Brown. Neither of those guys is likely to be in Panthers uniforms in two seasons. Make no mistake, this is an extremely bad team with a perilously little amount of talent. If you want to dig out of a hole like we are in, the answer is not consistently trading away draft capital for players. As a very bad franchise, the only thing we really have that is worth anything is our draft capital. The is the sole hope of getting better. Trying to add free agents at above market rates is very far from the answer. Trading away draft capital for disgruntled players is very far from the answer.