kungfoodude

I see the issue, I am not counting his rookie season where he didn't actually play minus a few snaps of garbage time. So by your math that would be his 4th year.

Well, those stats certainly disagree. He is very much having a better year. The "tie" is not actually a tie. The cells clip and round the decimals to one significant digit even if the input is more.

You didn't make counter arguments, ad I have pointed out several times. You got your "feels" out but that isn't a compelling argument.

I am not quite that optimistic but I think this past offseason seems to be an improvement for sure. Let's hope that is true and it continues.

I do think we should look at a QB in this class. It is fairly loaded with good backup QB prospects. It would be nice to tote a developmental prospect around again for a bit. Well, one that isn't a three year starter....

I would be very surprised if this wasn't it for Evans. They do have about $13 mil in void money that will hit their cap next year so they could work something out on a short term deal to lessen that. It will be interesting to see what he decides to do. I will certainly be glad to not see him anymore.

That's why I pointed it out because Bryce hasn't either, so it's not like that could be used an excuse for the poor winning percentage. And yes, right now, Kyler is the better QB. I would show it to you in the same "statistical" way that I did for Car123 but you have basically admitted that Kyler will obviously be statistically better(which is very true) and somehow that isn't relevant. Regardless, whether eye or statistical, you have made literally no reasonable counter argument other than "there is another guy in this forum that said he saw Arizona games and he said Kyler wasn't as good" and that "he got benched." That's really been the bulk of your argument so far. As for a "clutch performer", leader and whatever in the world a "smooth operator" is.....I guess that's the PFF version of your rankings.

Okay so I took a look at this across a WIDE variety of overall metrics and statistical groups that should give an idea about overall play and some potential aggravating factors associated with their play. Overall, I would say this indicates by the categories that I have detailed out that Tua and Geno are clearly the guys that are having worse seasons than Bryce. I would add that I am still of the opinion that they are better overall QB's given both capability and past performances. I will definitely concede there is not a solid statistical argument for them having a better year than Bryce, to date. Here is the data I gathered and I have shaded the cells according to "better than" or "worse than" Bryce. In a couple of the categories, this is an inverse because I am indicating these were less aggravating situations than Bryce has had and therefore less excusable reasoning for sucking. Let me know if there are any questions on the data/categories/etc.

Yeah, you would hope so. I am not gonna count too many of those chickens yet. Too many questions about this front office overall. It's been so bad for so long that they are going to have to do a lot of good work to get complete faith back or even partial faith.

If Brees third year wasn't fantastic, I don't really know what your measurement for fantastic is but it's very likely Bryce will never achieve that in his career.

Yes but his career winning percentages show that he almost exclusively chokes, especially when compared to Murray. Now, there is some nuance to all that, for certain but Bryce doesn't win often has been his entire career. It's not like Murray has been on a franchise that is known for stability either, for that matter.

I think you misunderstand what I mean by "significantly better than Bryce Young." That gets you entry into the top 30 NFL starting QB's. Not sure if you have seen that group recently, but it's not a strong one the further down that list you go. Murray is a Tier 3 if not Tier 4 QB in my book.

I am not saying there isn't truth to that but the economics and reality of the NFL are producing that. It's very hard to justify taking a guy in the 1st round, shelving him for years, having to make a contract extension and THEN hoping it all turns out okay. Not to mention, imagine that scenario after what we traded for Bryce. One thing is for certain, the QB desperation has led to bad 1st round QB picks for 15+ years now. That ain't new. I think we need to decide on Bryce's future this offseason and we will have to. In my eyes, picking up the 5th year option is the "all-in" move for a two year period. That means you are committed to him in the medium term. Not the move I would personally make. No matter what the decision is, I have been vocal about needing to bring in multiple QB's to improve that QB room for when Bryce falters again. How about just overall improving your team depth so that when it doesn't pan out, you at least have options on the roster? I don't feel like that is too much to ask and it's a valid bet hedge.

Yes, it's you and he. That is two.

Brees(like Allen before) was already having a fantastic year by year three. Geno Smith is valid but also remember that by year two he lost his starting job and it was 8 years until he regained it. Alex Smith is a difficult comparison only because he started so infrequently over his first 4 seasons due to injury. It actually really wasn't until Kansas City(his 9th NFL season) that he climbed out of the "Bryce Young" tier of QB's. He actually had almost all of his NFL success post-SF with Andy Reid. He was bad for a significant length of time AND with SF for all of it. This was an exercise in patience that I think basically no one wants to see with Bryce Young and the Panthers. Daniel Jones is a similar-ish track. Wasn't really good until about year 4 and then sort of declined for injury and play related reasons after that. Of course, one could also argue that he really only has had two "good" seasons in his 7 year NFL career including this season. Again, probably not the track we should hope for with Bryce Young. So, I will give you the latter two. Those are good comps. But, also the length of time to turn that around would be pretty bad for us. Both of those guys also were examples of getting a big contract extension that the original team that signed it sorely regretted.

Oh yes, the "guy on the internet who claims to have watched all the Arizona games but also all the Carolina games" metric. Mr. Scot, is this the threshold you have for information now??

Okay, so when Bryce got benched last season? That counts the exact same amount, right?

Sure but how many genuinely successful NFL starting QB's are this bad for this long before figuring it out? Let's be honest, almost none of them get this many opportunities with their original drafted team.

Okay, do you just want to use that initial group of QB's that you posted or would you like to modify that any(add/subtract)?

But isn't that sort of what we are getting at? Having 1-3 average or better games per season is what you expect from your #2 QB, not a starting QB. Especially when most of the rest of the performances are mediocre to extremely bad. There are very few QB's in the NFL that can say that at the moment. That's basically less productive, Jets era Sam Darnold.

He is having a modestly better season than Geno but Geno is a better QB. I will say that Geno also leads the league in sacks. Not to mention his season has been more efficient Bryce with more TO's so far. Hence why their QB Ratings are very close(87.9 vs. 84.5).

Pick your metrics. Do you want basic QB metrics, per game averages, advanced metrics? I can break down whatever you like but when I try to do this as a "general" thing then people immediately say that they don't like the stats. So, pick yours and we will take a look but I am going to add other statistical context that I think it relevant, although open for debate.

By year 2 Allen already had eclipsed the numbers Bryce is on pace for now. By year three, he was a Pro Bowler and MVP candidate.

I sure have. In most of those cases the statistical argument is extremely clear that even this season they are better than Bryce and in some cases you have QB's playing at or near the bottom end of their career results but basically being slightly worse or better than Bryce in his career best year. The damning thing comes when you look at total body of work. Then it becomes obvious that all those QB's are a minimum of a tier above Bryce if not more than one tier above him. I understand that we have seen blips of very good and good Bryce play this season but it's been very fleeting, similar to 2023 and 2024. Even at his "career bests" he would be on pace to have a very underwhelming season by non-Bryce standards.

Geno, Tua, Purdy, Stroud, Lawrence, Williams are so clearly better than Bryce as to be comical. Flacco I can give you but that's also due to his extreme age. He really is a backup QB at this stage. It was simply that Cleveland had no good options. McCarthy seems clearly worse. Saints QB's and Penis Jr. is definitely a good argument. I think the thing they have in their favor(not Rattler) is lacking the amount of film to conclusively say if they are clearly better or worse. But that still makes Bryce a very clear bottom 5 QB.