Mr. Scot

Ah, yes the old tactic of accusing your opponent of what you're actually doing...solid Multiple people on this site have said and agree that Rivera's handling of Newton actually shortened his career rather than maximizing it. Your suggestion that having him in a pro-system would have somehow negated his talents is pretty silly.

I can't sign on to what Robert Saleh said/did, but I'm not the world's biggest fan of joint practices either. Among other issues, it's pretty much guaranteed there'll be a fight. I get why teams do it, but still...

I also found the Brave browser worked best for me among the mobile options.

As I recall, Smith also did something dumb and got himself in trouble, but he is at least still around trying to make the roster.

They sounded optimistic about Zavala as well. Believe they said he could be available for some preseason action.

Nice attempt at revision My original statement was in response to someone suggesting that the 2011 staff was equal to the current one. I pointed out that I would not want Ron Rivera in charge of developing Bryce Young. (pretty sure most people here wouldn't, especially not over the staff we have now) That was when you came in with the ridiculous argument that Rivera actually developed Newton rather than just taking advantage of his talents. Yeah, sure Again, the fact that we had one great season (my actual word) a couple of good ones and a bunch of decent to mediocre ones with Newton starting isn't an opinion. It's a matter of record. As mentioned before, the same description applies to Luke Kuechly, Greg Olsen and any other player from that period. We changed GMs. Hell, we even changed owners. The one constant was Ron Rivera. Your primary evidence of "development" was that they built a college style scheme around Newton to "let him be special". As pointed out, that's not really a recipe for "development", it actually fits my description far better. It wasn't until Norv Turner got here that anybody tried to actually turn Newton into a pro quarterback. By that time it was too late because too much damage had been done, but even then we saw evidence of what could have been had Rivera chosen that approach from the beginning. The notion that this method would have somehow kept him from being himself or maximizing his talents is honestly pretty ridiculous Now Ron's in Washington with full control (another fact you tried to deny) and once again on the verge of getting fired. I suppose if he does, you can lobby to bring him back so he can help in the development our young franchise quarterback. Me? I think I'll stick with the guys with got. Alluded before to your own admission that you sometimes like to defend goofball arguments just for the hell of it. Gotta say, this one's a doozy

Talking about the Jets line, not ours...

Ron fixation...yeah I'm not the one trying (unsuccessfully) to argue that Rivera could be trusted to develop a young quarterback.

Everybody's fault but...the head coach's

Sound familiar?

So maybe Saleh had a point...

More about Byrd...

Meanwhile...

Rivera was given total control when he took the job. Look it up. And yes, I'd say Belichick was carried by Brady. That doesn't make Rivera a better coach though, especially since he was carried as well (already pointed out by someone else). That's not the only place where you're short circuiting your own argument though... You say Ron isn't winning because of talent, but not only do good coaches maximize talent, but Ron is in charge of the talent. Hell, he even pushed out a rising star in the front office in favor of his own guy.

Except all of Ron's winning seasons came with one GM, and then once he got a GM that was more willing to do things his way, he didn't have anymore. Now he's got full control and brought over the same GM he had for the majority of his time here in a high level personnel role. How's that going?

Not as stupid as it would be to leave a rookie quarterback's development in the hands of Ron Rivera. That's especially true when we're not talking about a smallish quarterback whose durability is a concern vs a huge physical freak like Newton.

Pretty much. I'd add that saying we had one great season, a couple of good ones and a bunch of mediocre ones in Newton's Panthers tenure isn't "Cam slander". Nor is it "Ron slander". It's fact. The same applies to Luke Kuechly, Greg Olsen and a bunch of other good players. Only the total number of seasons is different. The common denominator? Ron Rivera.

If you want to go by math, remember George Seifert had the best win-oss record in history. How'd that turn out?

I don't think it's that hard to do better than Ron either...as long as you don't hire Matt Rhule.

They said you get older and wiser. I mistakenly heard "older and wider" so that's where I'm at

You've definitely "mixed it up" in this thread. You're also wrong about Andy Reid. He's made average quarterbacks look great. Probably wrong about Pete Carroll too given how Russell Wilson is looking without him. But you're most wrong about Ron Rivera being able to develop anybody. All correct...

He's kind of a douche

Think he wanted more money than we were offering here. Probably also worth noting that his running style isn't one that has a huge amount of longevity in the NFL.

Maybe he needs a wider ass