Mr. Scot

If we assume Evero and his scheme remain in place, he'd technically be either a nose guard or a 3-4 style defensive end. Not necessarily a pass rusher, but a guy with the potential to play alongside Derrick Brown and make our defensive line a stone wall. I can get on board with this, but I'd hope we also make other offseason moves to improve our pass rush.

Seconded...

Not something to be concerned about. I pointed to that because it gives the full conversation to put the headline in context. Twitter guys are only gonna give you the highlights.

I've been iffy on Canales till now but this season has put me in his corner. He certainly still has areas that need improvement, but I do believe he can be "the guy". Admittedly, what I had hoped for was a chance to see Canales with a different quarterback. That particular scenario now looks to be, at the very least, a few seasons away. Gotta say also that we'd be remiss to have an offseason discussion and not reference Dan Morgan and the front office. What I see from there (especially since the addition of Brandt Tilis) is starting to look pretty positive. Here's hoping...

Full context here:

I'd throw Josh Allen in with Mahomes. Are Dolphin fans still split on Tua? I thought he was pretty much toast. (I know McDaniel is)

No, that's cherry picking. And it's really just a different spin on the "winning in spite of him" argument. Bottom Line: You cannot logically support the notion that everybody gets credit for wins except Bryce. Now mind you, even with acknowledging all these things, it remains possible to suggest that we should move on from Bryce (I still am) but basing the argument on this kind of thinking or hyperbole like "worst quarterback in the league" is weak.

I've argued before in this thread that the early season mediocrity isn't just Bryce. Very few NFL teams look great all season. Some start slow but get better. Others start strong but fade. The difference is offseason preparation and pacing throughout the aeason. Under Canales, the whole team comes out of the gate looking like sh-t, but they finish the season looking like winners. His in-season coaching and pacing seems to be solid. The offseason part...not so much That's why I want them to bring someone aboard who can coach Canales up on his offseason preparation. That includes helping Bryce get up to speed because what we're doing with him now obviously isn't cutting it.

Yep, and if you want to try and gauge the "human element" of the team, watch the videos of the locker room celebrations, paying particular attention to when Canales talks about Bryce.

Don't agree at all. We're winning more games than before, including against good teams with good defenses. And no, it isn't "in spite of him". That argument is silly. Yes, he's better. What he's not...is consistent, and I have a tough time fixing my hopes on a "franchise quarterback" who isn't consistent. But if we're all being completely honest... ...this wouldn't be the first time we've done that.

Saints game, although some of the early season contests were ugly too.

I mentioned Jake as an example of three years not necessarily telling the full story. Once they hit the field for their first NFL game, draft status loses all meaning outside of "biggest bust / best value" conversations between analysts and fans. Coaches and GMs should never take that into account. Performance is all that matters. As far as "complete games", people love guys who lead fourth quarter comebacks. What nobody ever seems to mention in that context is the reason you need a "fourth quarter comeback' is because you're losing after three and a half. That's why I'm not as big a fan of that metric. But I do have to concede that it does point to a "clutch" factor and, more importantly, to winning games. If Bryce continues to so that or progresses to doing it consistently, I'm not gonna fret about mediocre to lousy stats. And lemme tell you, as a guy who pines after consistency, the Panthers quarterback history (even the good parts) does not paint a pretty picture (this team turns "ugly wins" into an art form)

Gotcha Like I said above, if it's just a statistical contest, why are they asking people to vote? (so they think we're bad at math)

I've seen it suggested that there should be a "Most Valuable Quarterback" award and a separate "Most Valuable Player" trophy. I don't really think that's ever going to happen, but there's definitely an argument to be made that it should.

Here's the thing... If you're looking to give out an award based strictly on the best statistical performance, why would you put it to a vote? If it were all about the stats, you'd just give the award to the guy with the best stats. If you're asking people to vote on it though, then it can't really be just about the stats

Not really... Bryce is better than last year; worlds better than the year before. Mind you, that doesn't mean he should be signed to a long term deal, but it's there.

The fifth word in my quoted post agrees

Transcript of a conversation between Dan Graziano and Jeremy Fowler... Basic gist: Both believe he will (and should) get the fifth year option. Graziano sees some logic into going ahead with an early extension offer but Fowler disagrees. Text follows: ______________________________ Could the Panthers extend Bryce Young this offseason? Graziano: I covered the Panthers this past weekend and asked a bunch of their people about Young. And from what I can tell, they still believe in him. They've used 10 different offensive line combinations this season and have a young receiver group, so the team seems to think the ups and downs can be blamed on more than just the quarterback. Young was excellent Sunday in beating the Rams, but he was far less than that against the 49ers the Monday night before. The week before that, he set a single-game franchise record for passing yards in a victory over the Falcons. It's hard to really know what the long-term outlook is when the swings are this wild week to week. The Panthers will have to decide by the first week of May whether to pick up his fifth-year option for 2027. I expect them to do that because the cost will be reasonable (around $26.5 million), but then the question becomes what to do after that. Fowler: This feels like the classic wait-and-see situation. Despite showing flashes, Young hasn't progressed beyond midtier starter status. The Panthers have overachieved a bit this season and have viewed 2026 as their true jump year. Whether they want to allocate heavy resources to a Young extension during a crucial offseason remains to be seen. Picking up his fifth-year option and having him play at least a portion of his fourth season on his rookie deal is a sensible play. But Young has two things going for him. He's proving to be clutch, orchestrating four fourth-quarter comebacks and five game-winning drives this season. And he's showing touch on intermediate-to-deep passes, completing 30 passes of 20 or more yards. So he's giving the front office something to think about long and hard. Should the Panthers engage, what's the sweet spot on his market, Dan? Eleven quarterbacks are making at least $50 million per year. Graziano: So, if Young is open to an extension in the 2026 offseason, I think it would have to be lucrative to make it worth his while. If the Panthers pick up the fifth-year option, they will have him under contract for two years at around $33 million, so it might be tempting for him take a below-market deal just to improve on that. It might make some sense to do a short-term bridge deal like the one the Packers did with Jordan Love after Year 3 (when he really hadn't played much, because Aaron Rodgers was in front of him). But I don't see what Young's incentive would be to do an extension next spring or summer that averages less than $50 million per year. The Jaguars extended Trevor Lawrence at $55 million per year after Year 3, and we still don't know whether he's their long-term answer. Teams do wild things when it comes to quarterbacks because they're so scared about having to find one. So unless the Panthers are willing to give Young top-QB market value, he could bet on himself and bet on the team being incentivized to continue to improve around him. Then he could play out the 2026 season and put himself in position to negotiate a bigger deal after that, when the Panthers would have him for only one more year, which tilts the leverage Young's way. Fowler: Teams are only as good as their quarterback options, and Young is easily the Panthers' best. He also seems to have good chemistry with Canales and his staff. But don't be surprised if teams slightly shift their thinking when it comes to paying quarterbacks and show some level of restraint. If you don't have a bona fide top-10 guy, why pay obscene market prices so early? That's an easy call if you have a Josh Allen, Patrick Mahomes, Joe Burrow, etc. But Miami (Tua Tagovailoa) and Arizona (Kyler Murray) are among teams saddled with bloated guaranteed money for good, but not great, quarterbacks. My point is that there's no rush, barring both sides making concessions that work for them. I think Houston could be more inclined to pay C.J. Stroud, another QB from the 2023 draft class, early. He has higher-end traits as a passer. ... NFL Latest Buzz: Week 14

To be fair, Jake Delhomme has more than three years under his belt when he came to us. Bryce has shown legitimate improvement season over season. I don't think we can deny that.

Facebook status: It's complicated

Thing is though, you can analyze stuff from a bunch of different angles and still be wrong if the stats are your guiding force. I've watched enough football in my life to trust my eyes over my Excel. Stats have their purpose, and they work for some, but I've seen too many anomalies to make a high priority of them.

I asked because it ws double posted, looks like it's been cleaned up since though

That's...odd

Steve Smith

I got my moral compass from Bill Belichick