backINblack28

1 hour ago, Ivory Panther said:

According to several reports (including Joe Person of the athletic), the deal started to be discussed Monday & continued throughout the week.CJ worked out on Saturday...

I understand the logic of, they traded because they saw CJ workout, but it doesn't appear to be the case since the intent to trade started at least 5 days before he even worked out. 

On top of it, Fitt & Reich both said the tape was more important than the workouts.

So I doubt that the workout was the reason for the trade, although without the insight from Joe Person of the athletic, it would be logical to think so.

 

Fair point--do you have the articles handy that refer to that how that timeline shook out?

3 hours ago, Anybodyhome said:

This was, honestly, a forgettable game. A very good 1st period with the only 2 goals in regulation, but what was as noticeable was the number of SOG the Sens had- they kept pace with the Canes all game. Fortunately, Raanta played very well because there were pucks coming at him from all directions.

When Brown took the double minor (4 minute) in the 1st period- there was no call on the ice and a ref was standing in the opposite corner watching the entire play and didn't raise his arm. It took the bench and crowd screaming to make a call for the video review to get the penalty. Just garbage officiating. Then, the 2 minute delay of game on Ottawa trying to challenge something that didn't happen. From there on the refs were looking for reasons to get some PIM on the Canes.

The Martinook tripping call in the 2nd and the Fast holding stick call in the 3rd were just awful calls, and the Fast penalty resulted in a game-tying goal.

I will give the Sens some credit for supporting the rookie goalie making his first NHL start. They lined up to tap him as though they'd won the game. Good for them- the kid played well.

Canes are a speedy team that wears down with long possession.  If anything, sleepy goaltending and or lack of high leverage scoring chances is what can doom them--but...teams without speed or high effort get exposed hard vs us.  Tampa, Pitt and Boston are examples of very good/playoff teams that don't match up particularly well with our style.  However, the Sens do. They are young, quick and underrated.  We worked them over pretty good last time they came here, but they'll be taking over wildcard race from the older Washington/Pittsburgh teams reigns coming to an abrupt end

8 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

Offers for #1 kicked into overdrive after the combine, you also had Derek Carr being considered at that time. Panthers said the trade was about controlling their destiny. They couldn't afford to wait.

I think it's more likely that they went into it liking Young and the combine added others to the conversation.

 

 

 

Possible, sure.  I don't think we were ever considering Carr at his market value though--Fitterer's stance about not going for LJ because QBs on market are expensive translates to pretty much any free agent 

1 hour ago, MasterAwesome said:

Whatever happened to that report (not sure if substantiated) that Fitterer wasn't going to ask Reich who he wants at QB until 1-2 weeks before the draft or w/e.  Either that was BS, or all these "Panthers all love _____ and are definitely taking him" reports are BS.

That was a direct quote from Fitterer from Joe Person. 

Quote

Fitterer said he'll probably ask Reich who his guy is a week or two before the April 27 start to the draft.  Until then, Fitterer said everyone can go through the process without feeling any bias based on what other coaches or scouts believe.  "There's so much talk about it and things get out.  'Frank likes this guy. We like this (guy).' Nobody knows, because I don't know," Fitterer added.  "I get a sense of where he's at.  But I'm not gonna ask him."

11 minutes ago, XClown1986 said:

Or... where there is smoke there is fire, and they really do want Bryce Young. I don't think they want to risk moving down anymore. They want their guy.

I would support whoever they pick. I just find the timing strange if this is the case.  We were reportedly the most aggressive team at the combine, after which we made the trade.  That's when CJ Stroud was showcasing and when Bryce wasn't even throwing.  Not trying to say anything positive or negative about either guy, just the timing to me doesn't really match up with them saying 'let's go get Bryce' after we sat at the combine and were so impressed with something there that we wanted to trade--all while Bryce isn't doing anything

12 hours ago, cookinbrak said:

W is a W. Just stay ahead of Jersey.

there were so many inexplicable gross bad puck luck bounces in this game where we would be about to clear and would have 5 deflections and all of the sudden the sens would be in front of the net. It just felt like one of those games that was just not destined to go our way. 

I think since the DET game we've shown the ability to overcome some bad puck luck with our high effort and sticking with it--and some great goaltending lately from Raanta.  Every team in the NHL is a threat right now because teams are either playing for their playoff lives or have zero pressure and can go balls to the wall.  Was a great two points to get.  NJ has Boston coming up.  We need to pick up 3 points with the NSH/Buff contests coming up and we'll be sittin pretty

I'll be happy with whoever our staff wants, but at this point it's obvious (they even admit it here) that all of the discourse is because no one knows and they have nothing else to talk about for a month.

@Anybodyhome or @Panthers Fan 69

this is the last night to pick up the college scarves--if i bought one of the charlotte/canes scarves, would either of you be willing to pick up/hold it for me until perhaps a panthers game/we could meet up in raleigh or charlotte whenever, not in a terrible rush to get it. no worries if you don't want to deal with it

33 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

60 save shutout against the canes in his debut is the canesest thing imaginable

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2020/1/1/21044909/head-coaching-candidates-carousel

this article names four teams including us and the giants--two of which wanted him the year prior. I don't think it's revisionist history that he was a top candidate.  I think Tepper learned plenty from that but at the same time I think giving Rhule the keys at least made more sense in retrospect when you consider him as the program builder he was in college, coupled with the fact that Hurney was a lame duck GM yes man at that point to whoever we hired.  I don't think it's ever a good decision for coach to be a GM or to have too much say, but again, as a hire/what Rhule had done and where we were with Hurney, I can at least understand the decision making process, and I feel like outbidding the Giants is mostly irrelevant other than literally I was glad to have outbid an NFC East team.  That has nothing to do with salary cap it's just money out of Tepper's pocket.

They fired the coach they hired instead too so it's not like they picked 'the right way.'  I just think the full control was an easier ask for a guy who had his resume of completely turning around trash college programs especially when we had Hurney just trying to stay employed. Hindsight is super easy now because Rhule would have been like one of the worst college to NFL stories ever among tons of them-- if Urban Meyer didn't exist.  The stubbornness of keeping him when he hadn't shown anything is a different thing entirely, but I think Tepper is judged pretty harshly for missing on one coaching hire which was a coin plenty of teams were ready to flip. I just said I didn't blame him for hiring Rhule. I at least understand why we were in a position to give a HC more power than a team ever should with Tepper trying to band aid a situation instead of wholly cleaning house which in hindsight he 100% should have done. I think he was on board with the track record of program building and said yes to too many stipulations because of that, and I'm not trying to defend that as much as just to move forward and at least disclaim that the second time around I think he has shown he's learned/is doing things completely differently which is all I ask from that debacle

1 hour ago, Eric4280 said:

I’m also not an OSU or Bama fan. I actually watch the sport and take every factor into evaluation. Youngs small? Absolutely. He’s always been small. He’s always taken hits in the SEC. Hasn’t “broken down” yet. Can it happen? Absolutely. Can it happen with Stroud? Absolutely. I actually like and trust Young running with the ball and with pocket navigation IMMENSELY more than I do Stroud. Stroud is an in script, accurate pocket passer. And I didn’t say he’ll be the same exact player as Carr , Cousins, or Dak- do I feel very strongly that he’ll end up in that tier. Pretty high floor, ceiling that I just don’t see with an “it factor” that makes someone else. He looks uncomfortable in a lot of the things he’s bad at. And since once again all we care about is Bryce size and for some dumb reason…. COMBINE NUMBERS… I’ll pound the drum of- how many snaps had Stroud taken without - Marvin Harrison Jr, Chris Olave, Garrett Wilson, JSN, or Emeka Egbuka? How many Heismans has he won? How many of his tackles from this past season are going rounds one and or two? Obviously it’s easy to look smooth and effortless when you’re handed what he’s been handed in the big10.

 

So yeah I will be a “Bryce Young defender” when damn near every thread is 9/1 quips thrown at Young but Stroud is holier than thou.

As another person who isn't a bama/osu fan (i hate them both), this is my take.

1. I don't know why people are searching for or using pro player comparisons for either Stroud or Young.  They are BOTH very unique players that we really haven't seen before when you encompass all the details of their respective games. If you take that away from analyzing them I think it helps a lot more envision what their futures look like.  It's equally imperative when thinking about injury, which is just a complete wildcard (albeit fair to scrutinize more with Young's size)

2. CJ's WRs. This was my main issue with him most of the season evaluating him.  However.  The Iowa and Michigan tapes were where I started to see that while he has WR that 1 catch the balls he throws them and 2 get open and turn catches into TD/more dangerous YAC plays---he also throws beautiful back shoulder sideline BOMBS to them. He to me is a FAR superior and accurate passer than what I saw from Dak and Cousins (didn't watch Carr much at Fresno).  And quite simply, what CJ did to an amazing UGA defense answered my questions about his WR being perceived as a 1-2 punch to his success (Bryce deserves credit for doing the same against UGA).  Anyone objectively looking at this, we should all be able to admit that CJ beat UGA--take a missed kick out of it.  If he wins that game, the legacy and the questions change.  They changed for me that day regardless because idc about what the kicker did.

I simply have not seen pocket presence coupled with lightning quick AND accurate balls getting to wherever they need to get on a field in college. For me, Young has some of this at least with the pocket presence.  I think sometimes he is able to work longer and harder to have more time for his admittedly less talented WR to get open.  He won't have as much time or space to work with in the NFL.  Do I think that will hurt him? Maybe not.  What I know is that I personally feel confident that CJ's game and strengths will translate directly and that Young's could sputter and or the injury risk could be a pretty immediate 'well whoops' thing objectively.  Saying that CJ could get Theismanned day 1 doesn't really change that Young's durability will ALWAYS be a concern for everyone rooting for him as we await a former MVP QB trying to literally just get a job at this point.

3. CJ runs.  He's not as quick as BY in that respect, but he has long option runs and touchdowns all over his highlight tape.  The main thing when he runs is that when he is behind the line of scrimmage he is ALWAYS still looking downfield.  Being a Cam lover/fan, it's easy for me to want an ultimate dual threat guy.  But if we're going to make any comparison whatsoever here, it should be that CJ is to pocket accuracy what Cam was to rushing and CJ is to rushing what Cam was to pocket accuracy.  And although I would love to watch Bryce run around and create and succeed, I'm okay with rooting for that sort of opposite strength of Cam too because we have not had anything near a guy like CJ either.

For me, anyone who essentially downplays either QBs accuracy or rushing (IMO leadership belongs here too. Both guys are lauded by coaches, teammates and competitors alike) is telling on themselves IMO, because their rushing stats are eerily similar, as are their accuracy numbers.  Personally, if I am to the point where I'm choosing a separator, I am (I'm 5'6 and I played hockey and Steve Smith was one of my favorite Panthers ever for his napoleon chip on his shoulder) the number one advocate that it's the size of the fight in the dog...BUT, CJ objectively fits our team structure, our coach's structure for a QB, and any question you ask about accuracy or durability or mobility with CJ you would have to ask of every QB in the league.  

If nothing else, those in comparison to the fact that I think the timing of our "Panthers are the most aggressive team at the combine i've ever seen" & trade up happening RIGHT as CJ Stroud is doing stuff in the combine and Bryce isn't even throwing--it feels like we saw what we wanted from CJ at the combine and everything else has been 'let's keep our eyes and options open.'  I think that Fitt and Reich saying they don't know who each other's choice is could be true in their communication to each other but I think clearly when we traded up and when we showed our aggression we tipped our hand there at the reason. 

I say all that to say that I plan on buying a new design Panthers jersey with either 7 or 9 on it (sorry Shaq dude you need to take that 54 back) and if it's Young I will defend my fellow short king to the death and I will criticize every interception CJ throws in Houston.  If it's CJ I'll put Bryce in an oompa loompa meme with a texans jersey and hate him forever. Because bottom line is, while I hate and am exhausted by the discourse here (especially an entire cavalry of people ignoring that it's Bryce or CJ), I LOVE that we're in the situation where we completely control our own destiny (and that the teams like NO, TB, ATL didn't do it/hate that we did and are getting our future guy and HATE how good our offseason was) and we had the gall to move up and put ourselves there and that we've surrounded our guy with a much fuller roster than I can ever remember a rookie QB ever walking into as well as a much more experienced staff than I can ever remember a rookie QB ever walking into (league wide for both but underscored and especially here in Carolina). 

I am over the moon at possibilities for the future and since Cam took the TJ Watt hit in 2018 I have not been so excited simultaneously about 1 the direction of the franchise and 2 QB play and watching/having fun watching it.  We might all be tired of going back and forth.  But as some other posts have said--we haven't been here before and may never be again.  Revel in the good parts of it.  And at the bottom line, to me, that main thing is that we are getting a great QB, athlete, and leader that opponents feared, coaches loved, and teammates rallied around.  And I cannot WAIT to hear their name called out of the tunnel(albeit mentioned after a college name that I hate) while Desmond Ridder, Derek Carr, and Baker Mayfield get their practice throws in on the opposite sideline.

Keep Pounding.

1 hour ago, Khyber53 said:

It was also a generational change in leadership going from Richardson to Tepper. Old school owner versus the new style of owner. Old money vs new money. 

And Rivera might be the youngest of the old school coaches out there. How he came up in the business speaking to ownership/management may have been extremely different from the younger generation of coaches making their way in the system today. 

Now, he's in the coaching chair as another old school-type owner is on the way out and a new school type of owner is on their way in. I think Rivera is referring to the need to be able to speak in a different method than just x's and o's to whoever takes ownership of the team. And I think he's facing the reality that if he doesn't learn the needed language, he's going to go the route of John Fox, Jim Caldwell, Lovie Smith and other relic head coaches that won't grab the head coaching gig again and will be relegated to advisory roles or the C-team on ESPN2 weekends.

I like Rivera as a person, I think there's a really first class guy there. As a coach, he's a player's coach who tries to develop hard-nosed, scrappy teams heavy on grit. The teams are throwbacks, as he is at this point, and he's got to find the secret formula to getting someone else to believe in putting the franchise in his hands again.

He mirrors Washington's organizations in soooo  many ways -- a relic direly needing a total makeover, a record that is meh and one that is starting to billow in the winds of change.

Good luck to him, but I think the task before him isn't going to work out in his favor. There's an entire sea change happening to Washington and I don't think he can find the magic.

Perfect post and encapsulation of Rivera.  I loved Ron, more than anything in the sense that I see a good player coach that most guys would want to run through a wall for--any of his and Wilks locker room speeches--I don't see how anyone could just straight up not be a fan. 

With that said, he had several (clock/time/huddle management, conservative offensive outlook especially juxtaposed against having a QB that was impossible to stop on 4th and 3 and better, etc) 'old school' conservative quirks that I just thought okay--if we can pair this great player's coach with him getting the staff around him to essentially cover for his shortcomings, he could reach Reid.  Andy Reid had a ton of the same issues essentially that Patrick Mahomes put a huge 2/4 superbowl bandaid on. 

Had Rivera hired Pat Shurmur here instead of just promoting Shula when we lost Chud--that would have been a much better mix and IMO would have resulted in winning a super bowl we lost because we couldn't do things like *run one screen pass to backup a ridiculously over-aggressive pass rush*.  Rivera has learned some from that experience, but he's also stayed mostly the same.  He finally has Shurmur...possibly 8 years too late. T

The whole "riverboat" thing....he essentially changed that outlook because he was on the verge of being fired outright at 1-3 in year 3...and then after that season--he realistically wasn't doing Doug Pederson 4th down stuff. We would go for it on 4th and 1 with an unstoppable 250lb running QB and ESPN would tout here comes the riverboat like if we didnt go for it he didnt deserve to be killed in the streets for not letting Cam Newton try to get 1 yard rushing.  Never was he truly riverboat.  You could see Cam have to yell over to change his mind.  And god -- the amount of times we got playcalls in with 6 seconds left on the playclock/left timeouts in our pocket and could have had extra field goals...just so much conservative stubbornness that hiring one teenager who ever played Madden could have been like 'hey dude, don't do this thing, it's not 1985' and he could be similar to Reid, just on the defensive side.  Alas, here he is. On his last legs at a second job.

I maintain this best Rivera compliment--other than the promotion of Shula--I don't think he held back a healthy roster.  When Cam/most of our roster was healthy, we got results.  I think a lot of that is Luke/Cam masking some other glaring holes (WR, OL), but Rivera still deserves credit there.  He had awful injury luck that certainly did not help his shortcomings/stubborn ways, and I think inevitably Tepper was always going to want his own guy when it's not like Rivera was providing a glowing example of why he should stay.  

I don't blame Tepper for HIRING Rhule--the Giants wanted him as the top candidate of that coaching class and we stole them.  That was awesome.  I DO blame Tepper for holding onto him after two years of pretty much no discernible system/identity/signature wins other than beating Kingsbury a couple of times. I do love the new staff in place. And I think Tepper deserves credit for giving Wilks an opportunity to have the majority of the season to prove "I'm not Ron Rivera" to which Steve Wilks took and bottom line said "I hear you and all but also, I'm Ron Rivera."

I don't mind extending the 3v3. I don't mind keeping the shootout either though. It's a fun in person thing that is mostly irrelevant because the main thing is playoffs need to stay as they are.

30 minutes ago, DavidEng said:

That was brilliant of Martinook to shoot the puck, he really had no pass and you can see the goalie had his head turned to Aho just sure it would be Aho to shoot it. And just perfect puck placement in the net.

yup--and the goaltender is thinking he will pass to Aho the entire time-- he is worried about the more dangerous player eventually being the shooter, which, to be fair--the defenseman literally was willing to take a penalty to make sure Aho didn't get that pass in a dangerous position.  Martinook isn't even the most talented guy with the nickname Jordo or Marty on the team but he's all effort and a great dude to have around.  And every once in a while he comes up huge like this

3 hours ago, Harbingers said:

That is canes hockey. Aho even flat footed was ready for the pass/redirect/rebound. 

took a penalty there that the goal nullified

as brutal as that loss @ DET was, Rod's teams always respond well when things get toughest. We may have needed that wake up call considering even then we were coasting.  The past two games we have been back to out-efforting teams.  I'm hopeful we can maintain this division lead and we saw that we can still best NYI/Pitt in the first round.  We not be favored after, but our system works well in long series and anything can happen at that point

he followed up posting this on twitter with saying that the scouts he talked to didn't love the depth at EDGE--doesn't mean we wouldn't pick it with 39 if the right player was there, but I don't mind this otherwise

Rod does this seemingly on the reg but I can't say it's like something that only he does.  Shifting with 15-20 seconds left in your own offensive zone is ridiculous to me. I don't care how long anyone's shift has been--the prospect of keeping possession as long as possible and not shifting while you have the puck in your offensive zone to me is much more of a safeguard against what happened last night then giving up possession and getting fresh legs.  We got destroyed by that last night and it was brutal.  

1 minute ago, Anybodyhome said:

Not to mention the Canes are basically stuck with him as both Raanta and Andersen are UFAs in a couple months and there has been no mention of new contracts for either of them.

Doesn't mean we can't sign a UFA from somewhere else. I think we're going to take it pretty easy with those negotiations considering the injury history both before they got here and after.  We'll either get one of them cheap or both are gone

4 minutes ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Mahommes final season stats he threw 41 tds and 10 interceptions

 

5-7 on the way to no bowl appearance nor being top 10 in Heisman voting is also relevant

On 3/29/2023 at 3:00 PM, KingKucci said:

Kooche just needs more time and work.  Last night was the worst ive seen him play

 

honestly for the best that he's now seen some struggles too. things were going too good too early. that he's had the setback/adversity will help reset both sides expectations to not fire it up too early in his career.  It's good that he's getting experience in moments where we need him and we can help.  When we have a healthy 1-2 of Raanta and Freddie though, it's important to remember that Pyotr having more time in Chicago is only helpful to the future cause

That's likely the plan as long as we're not getting offered something more than what we paid for him at this point.  Cheap rookie deal is fine for a 3rd stringer.  We are one injury away from him being a very relevant piece on this team, and that injury/him having some play time could feasibly increase his trade value.

25 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

For those following the draft and looking for insights/mocks/etc. CBS is pretty awful, IMO. Outside of Jonathan Jones who we all know from CLT days, there coverage is closer to blogs and op pieces than well-connected reporting. 

while I agree with the comment about CBS, and do not like D Newton-- just for context, the title came from a quote from his ESPN article where Newton says "But according to sources with knowledge of the search, the Panthers' choice is between Stroud and Young."

Rooting for NJD to lose/that NYR/NJD is not some 'we're poverty' thing to me.  Maintaining the Metro championship when it's an enormous leg up in the first round when we're without objectively at the very least one of our top 5 players is just rooting for an objectively better situation.  It's not like rooting for NJD to fail requires all that much different attention or effort.  I'm rooting for the Canes to win the metro, and I'm surely thankful for any help where it's not all left up to them.  Opponents strength right now isn't super relevant to me, as sometimes it's easier for teams like Chicago to win one of 82 against NJD when they have literally zero to care about and NJD has all the pressure on.  I'm certainly rooting for the Canes to take care of business first and foremost.  I'm completely and totally fine with other teams stumbling too and the internet is literally the place to hash out the scenarios and paths so here I am.

5 minutes ago, OldhamA said:

Well firstly, you have to look at recruiting classes - Ohio St, Alabama and Georgia are absolutely stacked - everyone else is playing for 4th place: 

We're talking about a QB going #1 overall - everyone has brought up Newton today. He dragged an Auburn team with (I think) 1 other first round pick on the roster to a National Championship.

Georgia just won back-to-back National Championships with a 25 year old walk on who's likely to get drafted on Day 3.

So yes I think it's worth discussing 'what have Stroud and Young won'? If they're worthy of the #1 overall pick, surely they've elevated their ridiculously stacked teams, right? More so than said 25 year old walk on?

With regards to your final point, I think there's a legitimate chance that Richardson completely eclipses Young and Stroud in the league.

 

Florida is 12th on that list, for anyone who doesn't want to click it.  So I'm personally going to choose to not group their talent in with 2010 Auburn.  So yeah going 6-7 with the 12th best recruits around per your own point doesn't seem all that impressive, when, yes, in fact, Stroud and Young were elevating, or at the very least, winning 20+ games