davos

The two most common trades people throw out (trading down & CMC) are not going to be easy to pull off.

I'd have to say, I prefer him the most on the OL at pick 5/6. Ekwonu-Brady-TBD-TBD-Moton is a start

And to the point of EPA, that line chart is also very indicative of the good v bad teams IMO.

The EPA is actually a very telling stat (The Athletic Football Show podcast converted me) We have regressed and are absolutely awful.

I think he’s officially made it to the most disliked person in franchise history (that didn’t kill someone) Him coming back next season is just wrong in so many ways. Don’t do it Dave!

Given that we're always going backward and picking up backups to backups to backups, next logical step is Drew Lock, but I even doubt he'd want to play here. It's a mess.

After seeing the botched PJ/Sam/Cam/Barkley QB situation this year, I doubt even Jimmy, Mariota, or hell, even Andy Dalton or Nick Foles would want to be here. Who wants to be on a losing team, under such annoying coaches, and get beat to sh*t behind a crap OL every Sunday? I don't see many guys saying, "Yeah, that Rhule/Nixon offense looks so much fun, I'll be able to air it out and have some fun". Nope. It's more: "Wow, they have the most basic offense I've ever seen and an awful OL. They can't utilize DJ Moore and don't even use the guys they draft, no thank you"

An issue has been trying to look so "we don't accept mediocrity" to the point where you're digging a hole. We're throwing out what could be short-term acceptable and look flippant, wasting picks, throwing away respectable change for what turns out to be even worse crap. Teddy B has shown he can manage a situation. He's the most prototypical bridge QB you can get which was fine for what we needed. Problem being, there was clearly rough waters between Teddy, Brady & Rhule, with Teddy being the first to go. So now Rhule has shown he couldn't coexist with Cam, Teddy, & Brady. Pretty damning. Rather than riding him (edit: or really anything )out, just like we could have done with Cam, we now don't even have Rhule's 1st OC or 1st QB before his second season is even done. It's now made us look super unappealing, and will only accept excellence out of the gate. No development here, no true team building. He absolutely sucks and doesn't deserve to pick a waterboy. I REALLY hope Tepper's silence is just waiting for Monday to make the move 99% of the franchise knows he needs to make. Culture, roster build, everything needs to be steered back into an at least respectable direction. We look like a slimy, conniving JV squad.

I'd like to think an optimal OL rebuild is: LT: Neal/Ekwonu LG: Brady C Center: FA (I.E. Tedd Karras)--or mid-rounder RG: Literally anyone else RT: Moton Combine that with maybe another late rounder as depth, along with whatever happens with Deonte, and it's a start for a QB not getting murdered like we've seen this year. Then, we turn to the QB after another sh*t year with Rhule+Darnold and whoever the hell else they grab. Heck, maybe a Mariota or Jimmy G can lead us to Bryce Young. I just have an inclination they're done with the mediocre QB FA pickup. They'll keep Darnold and add a rookie.

None. The fact that we've been out of contention for a few weeks and we're still trotting Miller, Abdullah, Thomas, Zylstra, etc. out there is absolutely 100% stupid. This is the absolute prime time to test out the guys you handpicked and they're still playing these stupid games with over the hill or never-was FAs. It's complete idiocy.

Fair points. And very much agreed on the bolded. Not similar prospects but I do look to the Tannehill, Herbert, Jones, Allen, Carr, Matt Ryan crowd in a similar fashion where they were touted, checked a lot of boxes, and they are considered successful. All R1. They faced criticism from whether it was scouts or sites and they shined past them. Whether it was people questioning Herbert's leadership gene, Mac Jones being another McCarron, Mahomes being an inconsistent, impatient scramble first guy, or Josh Allen's accuracy concerns. I remember people bashing that stuff here as well, not wanting these guys. And it was always similar debates. Thing is we've never gone OT or QB R1 since Cam so it never mattered in the end. The bad side of this have been the likes of Mitch, Gabbert, D Jones, Rosen, Locker, Darnold, but it's all dependent on the situation. If we go QB1, it is almost a forced hand into OL/C trade up R2-3, another late round, and then 1 min in FA. But bottom line is I see a guy in Pickett (Along with Strong and Corral) with A LOT to be interested in, Rhule here or not. Line wise, if we're saying we have potential in Brady, have a RT in Moton, then finding a Center and at least 1 above average guard is the immediate goal and absolutely critical to not kill a rookie QB (under hopefully a new coach). It's all about not killing him into Darnold/David Carr mode/surviving to post-Rhule. John Miller will be gone. Michael Jordan will be gone. Hopefully Erving as well. So it's attempted line rebuild #300 but at least we'll have Brady LT/G and Moton RT. And I'd HAVE to imagine we can only go up from here. Something to note is the center FA class is actually quite interesting with the likes of Ry Jensen, Ted Karras, Justin Britt, Scott Quessenberry. I'd love the NC State kid or Neal but I won't be pulling a fit. I still see a lot to be interested in with at least 3 of these QBs.

Rhule and this whole situation blows.

Just wanna say, loving the discussion. It's interesting to see how he compares with past drafts. Think Corral & Strong would also be interesting to compare to the 2021 and 2020 classes with threads of their own. I just don't think this is as bad of a class as it seems. SUre plenty of question marks with all of them but in looking back, I just don't see this as some low end year. That would be 2019 or 2015. Or dare I say 2017 if people remember how Watson and Mahomes were talked about. The consensus guys at the end of last year in Howell and Rattler had really wild years and it's just thrown things for a loop, with another out of nowhere ascender in Pickett and the upside guys like Corral, then Ridder & Willis, it makes it a toss up but doesn't mean someone in this crop doesn't rise in the NFL. And then you've got more of a sure things with injury questions in Strong who I could see lighting it TF up for the Steelers or NO.

Overall, yes it's not an ideal QB draft but that doesn't mean a good one doesn't exist. And it's a hell of a lot better than 2019. I guess we're just not seeing him in the same light then, to each his own. I would have considered him in discussion with Herbert going into the 2020 draft rather than in the Love/Eason tier. I mean, mapping out the last 4 drafts, if we're just looking at prospects (not what they've done in the NFL), I'd consider behind Burrow & Trevor but ahead of a lot of other guys like Wilson (not a fan), Mac, Fields, Love, and dare I say, possibly Tua. More in that Herbert/Allen tier. Question marks due to unknowns from college but could easily be a hit. Just depends but I like everything I've seen with what was presented in 2021. His arm isn't Carson Strong level, but he just has a lot that you look for. I dunno, we'll see. It's all a process.

Got it. I mean, Wilson did the same last year with a far lesser team and in a far lesser conference. The hype train also continued during the pre-draft build. These guys pop up a lot, it's about figuring out who is actually worth it. All the bust prospects show good abilities in college and it's why they're picked where they do. It's just such a hit and miss. The reward is huge in netting a franchise QB, the risk is being crap for another year and missing out on awesome OL talent. It's a tricky spot to be in with no 2nd or 3rd, no QB and no OL to speak of.

To set the tone--I'd prefer Ekwonu at our spot at this stage.

I'm trying to discuss him, not just shun him and ridicule. What's the excuse? I'm speaking to what scouts and websites are seeing in reviewing his play.

I mean, Rhule would cause that but I don't see the arguments for why he is apparently a bad pick outside of pinning it against the need to build an OL. That's what I'm getting at is, in stepping back, ignoring the noise and needs, what is he as a prospect? Or really any of these guys? Why are you classifying him as a "fool"? And I'm a Hokie so hate when we draft WVU guys lol.

I don't see us being able to trade the pick with the two teams picking in front of us also owning the two picks after us.

Who's saying that? I'm offering him to the table for discussion and many to most are commenting on if it is viable or not. No one is jumping up and down saying draft him.

To be fair, Holgorsen's offense was a pass heavy, stat padding, non progressive scheme. Neal Brown has had issues implementing an offense until this past season and Pickett had to grow and get good with NFL level pre-snap reads and adjustments. It's actually another reason why I prefer him and Strong (along with Corral). Combination of a lot of factors and what was asked of them. You got to look at the mechanics, in-game awareness, ball placement, all factors and Pickett is on par with many top-10 prospects. Honestly, a ot better than the likes of Bortles, Gabbert, Darnold, Locker, etc. Too many to name. I can see him at minimum producing in the Cousins/Carr/Ryan type range. Respect your opinion against him but I do see a lot of things to like even in being a one hit wonder per se.

Exactly. People were ready to throw so much hate if Mac was drafted instead of an OL, same with Herbert. And behold, we didn't take a OL or QB lol.

Regarding the prospect himself and not this whole OL vs. QB mentality, one of my favorite takes from a report/eval:

It was really bewildering how we didn't use him. Erickson and Zylstra were preferred over the hand selected rookies. Seems to be leaning into bust territory as Shi Smith has shown probably more in an even more limiting role. Pisses me off we could've landed guys like Cosmi, Radunz, Jackson Carman, & Creed Humphrey without really losing the value he brought (and may come to bring)

Not the premise, prefaced the entire thing by saying that's a known and preferred method to build.