KB_fan

Not bad.... here are a few changes / thoughts. (Note: I've not yet read anyone else's comments, so apologies if I write the same things others may have already said). Agree re: 25 on Offense, 25 on Defense and 3 on ST as the most likely breakdown, Agree. I know some suggest cutting Webb. I don't see it unless we find another similar ST ace / Swiss Army Knife. Webb has made himself very valuable to the team, plus he's a lot of fun to watch as a preseason QB. Win-Win. I have a sneaking suspicion we'll keep 4 TEs, (or 3 "TEs" and a 2nd "FB"). It seems to me we're trying hard to find someone in that hybrid FB-TE role. I've been assuming Sandland is more of a receiving-TE to groom behind Greg. I think we're grooming someone to replace both Ed Dickson & Mike Tolbert. I'm not totally sure Dickson will make the roster. Our sheer aggressiveness in purging the roster of other veterans this season (Cotch, Harper, Boykin, J-No, [and think too that we seemed prepared to let CJ and Tolbert walk...!], and bringing in so many TEs in addition to Sandland suggests to me that Gettleman wants to see real change at this position and wants young guys to be playing. But how soon that change happens is had for me to judge. If we do keep a 4th TE it would be at the expense of the 10th Oline player (Foucault). I don't think we keep 10 Oline. Agree we keep only 5 WRs unless one of the other speedsters (Byrd?) wins a role on ST. But given that we only usually activate 4 WRs, keeping 6 seems unrealistic. (A 6th WR would mean keeping only 3 TEs and 9 Oline). Agree with KB, Funch, Ginn & Brown (unless his shoulder injury hampers him.) Personally, I think Norwood may beat out Hill, but that's just a pure guess. Garrett is a wild card. He could ball out and surprise people and win that 5th spot. But it would have to be pretty extreme dominance since he has PS-eligibility while I don't think either Norwood or Hill do. (Of course any of those three, even if eligible, might not be safe on the PS). Agree. As mentioned above under TE, I think we're interested in grooming a hybrid FB/TE this year, and so keeping a player like Bonnet or FB/RB Devon Johnson could be possible.... I could see 3 TE / 2 FB (with 1 being a FB/TE) or 4 TE / 1 FB. I predict only 9 Oline on the roster. (Heck, we only had 8 much of last season... we were very fortunate to have so few injuries. Don't want to tempt fate again.). We're clearly looking at backups who have position versatility, which is why I think 9 could be reasonable. Hopefully we do sign an experienced, solid free agent. I think Foucault is gone unless he has had a miraculous transformation we don't yet know about. So, Overall on Offesne I'm pretty confident about: 9 Oline 3 QBs 3 RBs The other 10 players on offense would be either: 5 WRs / 4 TEs / 1 FB 6 WRs / 3 TEs / 1 FB 5 WRs / 3 TEs / 2 FB It all depends who balls out and is ready to make an impact, who we feel we need to protect by putting them on the 53, and who might have a role on ST. Agree with 9. And agree with the 5 DE / 4 DT split. Not sure Horton makes it. He was clearly #53 on the 53 man roster last year, waived twice... I don't remember which of our other young DEs (Miley, Cox) was promising against the run... I'll guess that Miley makes the roster since we worked hard to protect him from the PS last season. Agree 100% with these 6. I think there's a VERY SLIM chance (<20%) that we keep a 7th LB in place of a 5th Safety. It all depends on ST and what we are planning / who we are grooming in case of AJ Klein's departure. Agree with 5 on the 53 man roster. Not sure #5 will be Lou Young. I think we'll keep Robert McClain around awhile as an experienced backup to the youngsters. He has experience playing both outside and slot. Can backup both positions. Perhaps the biggest Cahnuh question is whether Bene starts in the slot or on the outside... And of course, we could be sneaky and get a "free" 6th corner with Charles Tillman on the PUP. I'd still really love to see this happen. (I know I sound like a broken record). He's just SUCH a classy guy and has so much to teach the players. Of course we could try to hire him as an Asst Coach, but it's not quite the same as being on the roster as a player. Just a question: With Teddy Williams gone, who do we use as Gunner on ST? His penalties were infuriating, but his speed was really nice... Agree. Slim chance if we think we MUST have another Corner or LB that it comes at expense of safety. But that's just a slim chance. Agree at this point based on who is on the roster. But I think Swayze Waters is not certain. I could see G'man still trying to go with an experienced NFL vet punter if one is released... Question: would Waters have PS eligibility? If for any reason the Punter battle was not clearly decided between him and some as-yet-unsigned Vet, I could see us keeping Waters on the PS for a few weeks early in the season while we decide who to go with for the long term...

Serious answer. From what I've read about the guy and heard other players mention in interviews, etc: Apparently very smart.... known as "the Principal" in the locker room / meeting room, he's the one who helps Cam et al figure out if a play call is too obvious, something they've used before. Sounds like he has the playbook memorized. He's been a very good mentor to the rookies, especially UDFAs, since he was one himself. Knows all the WR positions. More or less plug & play at any of the WR positions, which makes him good depth in the case of injury. Solid possession receiver with a history / very high percentage (albeit on limited snaps) of clutch 1st downs. (He was one of the league leaders in 1st down % in 2014... Again, it was limited snaps, but he could be trusted to move the chains.) Cam likes him, has good rapport with him.... The past two years that made him a very serviceable WR #5. Not saying he will or should make the team this year. I understand that it doesn't look like there's much more upside for him, and he doesn't have the speed or YAC we'd like. But in terms of backup depth, Bersin has been solid.

Back on the topic of Garrett: Bill Voth has a nice write up about him at BBR re: why we didn't draft Garrett yet are excited to have him as a Priority UDFA. It's a slightly fuller version of the short piece he posted yesterday, focusing on how Ricky's going to Tulsa made a difference: http://blackandbluereview.com/why-panthers-didnt-draft-keyarris-garrett/ Here's an excerpt: According to David Newton, Panthers were the first to call Garrett: http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/20826/panthers-undrafted-pickup-keyarris-garrett-i-was-the-best-wide-receiver-in-the-draft Excerpt:

I'm not positive, but I think it IS possible that a guy could be stashed on IR without exposing them to waivers. We did it with Miley last year. Not that Miley was as at great a risk of getting poached as someone like Garrett or Cash could be, but what did we do differently with Miley vs. Gaffney? Miley ended up being sent to the IR due to needing some knee procedure (that we only heard about a day or two before final cuts.... HMMMMM..... In fact, there was some speculation on the day of final cuts that he was going to be on IR Designated to Return.) But I don't recall him ever being exposed to waivers as Gaffney was? Did I miss Miley being exposed to waivers or did we treat the two cases differently? In trying to answer my own questions, I did some research: Looking at transactions from August & Sept 2015: For comparison, I first wanted to see what we did with KB. We added KB to IR after the first round of cuts. I *KNOW* we did not expose him to waivers. I recall we had to keep him on the roster throughout training camp until initial cuts to avoid exposing him to waivers. (By contrast, when Stephen Hill and Frank Alexander were injured, both WERE exposed to waivers when we sent them to the IR): 09/01/2015 Injured reserve WR Kelvin Benjamin 08/02/2015 Waived/injured WR Stephen Hill 08/03/2015 Injured reserve WR Stephen Hill 08/24/2015 Waived/injured DE Frank Alexander 08/25/2015 Injured reserve DE Frank Alexander We replaced both Alexander & Hill on the 90 man roster.... So clearly keeping KB on the roster throughout TC was enough to keep him from being exposed to waivers, unlike Alexander & Hill. I wasn't sure though if that would also apply to a rookie UDFA like Miley: Miley appears to have been sent to the IR during the 2nd round of cuts. Unlike Hill and Alexander there is no mention of him being WAIVED, instead, just like for Kelvin Benjamini, it just says he was sent to IR. No "Waived/Injured" transaction. Instead direct to IR: 09/05/2015 Injured reserve DE Arthur Miley In 2014, Gaffney, like Hill & Alexander, was injured early in the offseason. We tried to waive him and move him to the PS LOOOOONNNNGGG before final cuts - on July 27th to be exact. 07/27/2014 Waived/injured RB Tyler Gaffney So, it appears if there were some injury which meant we could stash a promising young player we liked on IR, as long as we keep them on the roster through at least 1st cuts after training camp, it appears they can get sent to the IR without being exposed to waivers. It would just mean having one less healthy player at Training Camp. But given how tough it's going to be to make our roster or PS this year anyway, that might not really be an issue.

Bill Voth got a bit more insight from Proehl as to why the Panthers didn't draft Garrett: Definitely shows how "need" does mix with "BPA" in terms of how our draft board gets set up. http://blackandbluereview.com/notes-quotes-panthers-rookie-minicamp/4/ So he really IS a "free draft pick" for us... a surprise gift. The question is now is he going to bump someone else off the roster...

So Key said Ricky was key. Got it!

Seriously... there is some real resemblance between Eubank & Cam. There was another picture that caused me to do a doubletake.

I just spewed coffee all over my keyboard I'm laughing so hard.

Yes, I too am really glad we drafted a TE to groom under Olsen. Key in our offense. Eubank too intrigues me. If he shows promise, I could possibly see us keeping him as a developmental QB on the PS. But heck, even our PS spots are going to be at a premium. We have more talent than spots available.

To help in roster predictions & analysis, I spent a bit of time this evening looking at how many players at which positions were 1) on the roster 2) active for each week last season. Here are at least simple summaries of the results. I may post something more detailed on this later this week in a separate thread. Position Counts 2015 - 53 Man Roster (No, having a maximum of 4 ST players on the roster is not a mistake. The week of the Dallas game we had Danny Aikman on the roster as an emergency long snapper when we were concerned that JJ Jansen might not be able to play.) Position Counts 2015 - ACTIVE on Game Day Hope this is helpful and useful as you think about roster projections. Of course, as Jeremy noted, the changes in the team could change how the positions are divvied up this season. Perhaps fewer WRs and more DBs....? Who knows?! We'll find out....

ROFL. Oh that is just classic. So good. So good. That laugh!!! The ending. PERFECT. Whoever did this, thank you!!!

Actually it's 4 of 5. (GULP) Remmers, Oher and Kalil will all be Pending UFAs Norwell will be a pending RFA Only guaranteed Oline starter signed for 2017 and beyond at this point is Trai Turner (and possibly Daryl Williams if he wins a starting spot) Some of us are not arguing that we need new/better Oline STARTERS NOW, it's just that we need better depth to be grooming behind these players we could lose next year. (Center & Tackle - guard we're in better shape.) And even this year, we don't have an obvious 4th OT as backup. After Remmers, Oher and Williams are Foucault & Hawkins. Neither of whom are proven to be game-ready. (Heck, even Williams is pretty unproven)

It was Haeg I quite liked, and we'd met with him. I thought he seemed like he could become good depth. But I confess I'm no draft scout... perhaps the dropoff from someline like him and the OTs remaining on the board who are now UDFAs is not as great as I realized.

Jeremy, I agree with what you wrote... and generally I'm ok with this draft. Once I got over the shock of the Bradberry pick in round 2 and realized what Getts was doing, (and found some analytics that explained why he might be so high on Bradberry, LOL) I chilled. But, I am concerned about OT. I like Sanchez as a player, but picking 3 CBs and not picking an OT in round 5 has me worried.

Well said. But given that difficulty in finding the right guy, and given our serious thinness at the position right now behind Oher & Remmers (with both in contract years), doesn't that suggest we should be looking each draft to find some guy who *might* successfully translate? I'm disappointed we didn't draft OL depth this year from some of the fairly solid prospects who were on the board in round 5.

Ah, ok. I hadn't really picked up on there being a lot of other interest in him. I picked him because I thought he might fall, not because he's the player I most want. Personally I'm pretty excited by Shepard & Hunter Henry & what they could bring to the offense. But I really don't have confidence we will trade up to get them. Thing it would cost too much.

I'll predict Cravens. He was coming up as top of the board for us at #62 in a lot of the mocks I was doing last week. I predict we'll trade up in the 3rd.

Yeah, sorry. I jumped the gun. I sort of zoned out while reading your comment. Just gave you pie. Agree with all you wrote. Sorry, just too tired. Need to get some sleep soon if I'm going to follow any of tonight's draft or the Hornets game. It really is tough being 5 hours later than the East Coast right now....

I'm not sure those are the only good CBs available. This CB class seems quite deep. What about players like Harlan Miller, Cyrus Jones, Zach Sanchez, Deiondre Hall? I'm sure I'm forgetting a few.... Personally I think there are some good CBs likely to be found in rounds 3 and even 4 or 5. So I'm not so stressed about grabbing a CB tonight. I'd rather see us get either a very good offensive talent (Shepard or one of the Henrys, for instance) a very solid safety (Cravens?) or a pass-rushing DE. Those are the positions I think have the best value in the 2nd... [Sorry, I quoted you and commented too soon. I realize by the players you then go on to mention as round 3 prospects that we're basically on the same page. Sorry... sleep deprivation has me very tired given the 5 hour time difference which had me up from 12 - 2 a.m. my time to try and follow the draft last night (I confess I fell asleep before the Panthers picked and only woke up at 5 again after our pick was long done...). So ... feel free to ignore my comment.]

In another thread, I posted all the current free agent cornerbacks, using the list from PFF (with grades) and Spotrac. I confess I don't know these players, but just based on a quick look at the availability, I'm interested in learning more about Leon Hall and Cassius Vaughn....

Yeah, Bene was much more highly rated by PFF and B/R in 2014 when he was playing outside than when he was playing nickel in 2015. He along with Star and Ed Dickson were, I think, the 3 players with the biggest decline in rankings in 2015, but my memory could be fuzzy.

Pie for the humor. Helps lighten things up when the mood here is so tense!

Actually, in the 14 mock drafts I did at fanspeak, using 8 different boards (with priority given to NFL, CBS & Draftek boards), Fuller wasn't picked once in the 1st. He was picked 71% of the time in the 2nd and 29% of the time in the 3rd, But for us to pick him, we'd probably have to grab him in the 1st or trade up in the 2nd, because he was only available to us at pick #62 29% of the time (4 of 14 drafts) and never available to us at #93. Of course, that's depending on the accuracy of the boards & mocks at fanspeak, and also all the drafts I did were before the Eagles trade yesterday, so that could shake things up.

Also maybe Detroit with Megatron's retirement?

Alexander is gone. He is suspended until late November. We let him walk.