AU-panther

Too bad Rhule didn't spend a $100 on a PPF subscription, he could have saved the team about $23m and 3 draft picks. Seriously though this is the problem with proverbial "eye test", NFL coaches and GMs are as guilty as fans. You start forming your opinion off a small sample size of plays or you give too much credit to the occasional splash play.

For whatever reason the rest of the league isn't knocking down the door to sign Cam. If he plays well you sign him to a moderate 2-3 deal while you draft a rookie this year or next to replace him down the road. We don't need 2015 Cam, NE Cam would probably actually win a good many games with this defense.

It blew up in our face also because we received zero compensation for him walking and ended up signing Teddy for a decent sized contract that we are still paying for. Both sides made mistakes and some of it was understandable for both sides. Here is my guess: Cam was in the last year of his deal and wanted an extension. Nothing wrong with that and I would expect the same if I was Cam. Cam probably wanted a decent size extension based on his body of work the previous 8 yeas. Here again, nothing wrong with that. The team on the other hand didn't want to commit long term especially based on recent injury history. Can't really blame the team for that. My guess is Cam (and when i say Cam I'm referring to him or his advisors) made it clear he didn't want to play on a one year deal. Would Rodgers? Or Wilson? Even if they were hurt the year before. Here again I can't blame Cam for tanking this stance, I would have done the same. The team probably decided they didn't' want to deal with the drama and said go look for a trade. In the meantime they signed Teddy. To me this is where the front office made a tactical mistake. At that point you can't keep Cam and the rest of the league knew it. You basically just devalued your own asset. What the team should have done was tell Cam no to the extension, and for Cam to look for a trade, and if he found a fair value one for the team they would consider trading him. Don't sign Teddy and just slow play the situation. We should have started the season with Cam, or traded him for assets and started the season with Grier. Did Cam ultimately end up costing himself money, yes, but if you don't sign Teddy and slow play it Cam probably sees that he isn't getting any better deals anywhere else and he plays out his last year. Honestly its blown up in the teams face also. Look at the cap and draft picks that we have wasted on the QB spot since that point.

Would you spend $19m in cap space for just a 4th round pick? I don't care how much cap space a team has I don't see that.

So we shouldn't blame Darnold and instead blame the OL and Brady? So Darnold would be a great QB with a good OL?

Ever since Tepper has bought the team a lot of people have been quick to jump at the opportunity to paint him as a meddling owner with an overblown ego and pride. If anything he has been the opposite. Probably too patient with RR, too patient with Hurney, probably stayed out of the "football decisions" too much. You can make the argument that the team shouldn't have let Cam go in the first place, but in reality at that point Cam was coming off some injuries and it made sense to not extend him. All the parties probably thought a trade partner would materialize which never really happened. Looking back they should have slow played it, told Cam they were not going to do an extension, he could look for a trade but when it didn't happen he probably would have played out his last year. Once they signed Teddy that option went away. Either way I'm not sure a lot of owners would have resigned Cam after everything that has happened. Simply put, this team, as crazy as it sounds, is in playoff contention, and they are doing what they think probably gives them the best chance. You have to respect that.

First of all the fan in me would love to see Cam run out on the field, but the realist in me thinks Cam isn't the answer at this point in time. Just like Teddy wasn't the answer. Just like Sam wasn't the answer. Take your losses and draft a QB this year or next. We keep trying to win now and so far it has just came back to bite us. Is this a save a job type of paly. We are 4-5 but as of now we are still in the playoff picture, next four games are Arizona, Washington, Dolphins, and Falcons. With Cam can we go 3-1? At this point we are 7-6 and still in the playoff picture? or Are we just going to win a few more meaningless games and cost ourselves a QB in the draft?

I didn't like the trade for Sam. Also I thought the chance of him being elite was slim, but I didn't think he would play this bad. I really thought we had some good skill positions, and the style of offense that would make things easier for him.

We might have backed ourselves into a corner, I could really see it happening, and like you I don't want to invest in a bum. People just need to realize that QBs aren't even money bets. They are always a worse gamble than other positions but the payoff is a so much higher, and frankly its a payoff that you pretty much have to have to be an upper tier team. Gambling on a QB in 2021 on paper made more sense in 2022. I really don't know what kind of class is coming in 2023. That might be the wise move, I just seriously doubt anyone has the patience for that. I think this season is so much more frustrating for fans because a lot of us saw this coming.

Pats, Chiefs, Packers, Colts, Seashawks, Steelers were all pretty much built on QBs that they drafted. They were consistently good because of the QB. The league is full of good rosters with bad QBs that consistently are average to below average teams. You keep on with drafting a guy that you believe IS the guy. Outside of the rare time you have the 1st overall pick and manning or Luck is there that doesn't happen. People thought Rodgers MIGHT be the guy, that is why he fell. People thought Mahomes MIGHT be the guy, that is why he fell. He was the 3rd QB in a class that had Trubisky at the top. Nobody even thought Brady MIGHT be the guy. Pretty much nobody thought Wilson MIGHT be the guy. Everybody did think Manning IS the guy, hence the reason he went #1. We actually ended up with Sam Darnold because we were scared to draft someone who MIGHT be the guy because we only wanted to draft a guy that we knew IS the guy. My only point is if you wait for the guy you are 100% sure about it will probably never happen. Here again, agree to disagree, I like most of your post and we agree on a lot and both saw this coming.

So you would only draft a QB in a loaded year when you have a top 3 pick?

Sam Howell will add revenue and excitement. If anything happens, Rhule might changes OC, that will buy him some time. Also drafting a rookie QB will buy you time. Most owners know rookies take a few seasons. If Rhule goes off and signs a decent vet, he basically just gives himself one more year. If he loses with 3 different vets then I can't see Tepper keeping him.

I didn't think our O-line would be good, but I didn't' expect this bad. A lot of our line are the same guys as last year, short Okung who didn't play much, and we added two draft picks. Last years O-line was a middle 1/3 unit, I was expecting the same, possible lower middle 1/3. Between CMC being back and our quick passing style I didn't' expect us to be this bad. I tend to not think in rankings in terms of 1-32, impossible to really separate teams that closely. Whether you are the 22 or 25 worst o-line you are bad. I think more of top 1/3 (think top 10), bottom 1/3 (think bottom 10), middle 1/3 (everyone else).

bottom 5 OL and bottom 5 QBs don't seem to go to well together. Out of curiosity was is your idea of an elite QB prospect in the draft? I know you don't think there are any in 2022 draft, which there might not be, but what is your idea of one? Fields? Wilson? Trevor?

There seems to be a lot of blame going around and varying opinions on how to right the ship going forward. A lot of people think QB is our biggest need, others says fix the O-line first. QB vs a single O-lineman is an easy question, a good QB adds expontially more wins to a team than any a good any other position, but what if we are talking multiple good players at other positions? Hypothetical questions, which would be better for the organization long term? Spend the next three 1st round picks on O-line, be correct on all three and have 3 top-10 players on the O-line or Spend the next three 1st round picks on QBs, be correct on 1/3 and have a top 10 QB? Which scenario is better for the organization for the next 10 years? I would take the QB, but I'm curious what others think. I am of the opinion that a great QB with an average line will win more games than an average QB with a great line.

So you are content with us being average for years to come. We get a journeyman QB, make the rest of the team strong and we can go 9-8. Maybe one year we win a few close games and go 11-6 and get in the playoffs and probably lose. Cleveland wasn't bad because they overdrafted QBs. They were bad because they didn't draft QBs well. They had a good line, one of the best LTs of all time, and it still didn't' matter. Also teams don't for the most part don't maintain a level of winning. Most teams have good yeasr and bad years. This isn't about tearing the team to the ground but instead finding a QB. The teams that consistatnly win are those that have the best QB play. You are overstating players wanting to leave, most players go where the dollars go, even if a few leave it doesn't matter if you find a QB. An elite QB is worth more wins to your team then a hand full of any other players. Its not even just about positional value, its also about avaiilbity. I can replace a safety or WR in free agency. Even if want to spend the money on a QB in free agency there is a very good chance you can't find one. I'm not talking about spending a 1st round pick every year, since Cam how many QBs have we drafted in the 1st round? 2nd round? I guess you and I just have different goals for the team.

2021 NFL Free Agents and Free Agency (overthecap.com) Murry? Lamar? I'm guessing they resign where they are. Brady will be 108. Stafford already turned us down once. Jones if Giants don't resign him? but if they don't resign him that means he is probably bad. Cousins? Jimmy G? Carr? Mayfield? How many of those would we really want? How many of those 4 make it to FA. I could see Jimmy G because they drafted Lance, and Cousins since he is old. Are we really pinning our hopes on them? Nick Foles will probably be available, and Will Grier, and Drew Lock.

but you keep talking about the free agents, I'm actually curious who might be available? Also if you are going to pass on this QB class shouldn't you have an idea of what is coming up in two years? I'm sure the teams do.

Who are these great free agents you are counting on? I'm just afraid you are one of these fans that is constantly waiting for the perfect QB prospect to fall in your lap, it rarely happens. Unless you have the #1 pick and Manning or Luck is in the draft here is always a prospect with questions marks. So what happens you fall into a constant cycle of having average free agents. Cam had question marks, I'm sure there were other positional players that were "safer". Would you have preferred Slater or Fields? A lot of fans wanted Slater, especially now that he is playing well. Slater has a better chance of turning out to be a great OT than Fields has of turning out to be a great QB but so what? The Browns had a great LT for years, did them do good. Having Fields you have at least given your organization a chance to have a great QB Going from a bad QB to a good QB helps your team exponentially more that going from a bad any other position to a good any other position and its not even close. You pick 3 OL in the first round in three straight years, that all turn out good. I'll pick a QB in the first round in three straight years, and if I'm right 1/3 times my franchise is in better shape than yours. Here again I'm not saying you force a pick every year, some years the value is so far off its not worth it but at some point you have to take the gamble. The irony is that the second position that often falls into this same mindset is LT. They are almost always over drafted and more times than not there is a player at a different position that has a higher grade. I'm sure Brown was graded higher than Wirfs, I'm sure Horn was graded higher than Slater. Both positions take a commitment from the organization to spend draft resources and honestly to gamble somewhat.

It is probably partly evaluation but also a large part willingness. With lineman, especially tackles you have to take your shots. There are no sure things or every team in the league would have a good line. Its a commitment to the O-line, often you have to pass on a player at a different position that has a higher grade. In the last 10 years how many 1st and 2nd round picks have we used on O-line? That is making something a priority or now.

either? you keep acting like if we wait there is a sure thing later.

So who do you think we get? Is there a great class the following year?

Win/loss in games that Anderson started in the previous 3 years, 2-7, 3-4, 3-6. He probably didn't know much more that Sam. DA was a backup most of his career for a reason.

agree to disagree I think a lot of that mentor talk is the kind of crap players and coaches say at podiums and announcers on tv. Would Darnold had been a better player with a better mentor? or Cam? Regardless I do think there is a financial trade off you have to look at. Paying a QB like Flacco $2m i could see some value like that but at a certain point you have to look at the opportunity cost of what else you could have.

That money you are going to spend on a midlevel vet I'll use to improve the LG and that will help that rookie QB more. And any vet that is super cheap probably wasn't a good QB to start with so how much do you really want him teaching a new QB? I agree that Teddy made sense, I always thought with him the plan was if he played well you extended him and he became the franchise QB or if he didn't you draft a guy this past draft and let Teddy mentor him his first year and then you release Teddy after his second season which financially wasn't that bad of a point to get out of his contract.