AU-panther

I'm not saying he wants to be here, but there is a chance that New England is ready for a fresh start. Bill might not get the chance to coach that top QB prospect.

My guess is we go with an offensive type of coach that has a history of making young QBs work. Not sure if Bill fits that description.

maybe, but I think some of that is probably overblown to a degree. You hear a few random reports from unnamed people that he is meddling and then next thing you know half the fan base thinks he is making every draft pick on his own. Having a weekly meeting with your HC asking him to explain why he is winless can be considered meddling by some. Sitting in on meetings and asking people to explain their thought process can be considered meddling by some. Telling your coaches and front office it's time to draft a QB can be considered meddling. If anything, all of this talk about him meddling has kind of let the front office off the hook about a lot of questionable personnel decisions.

Thats a very logical opinion. If we believe that is too be true and also that Frank and possible McCown preferred Stroud, who is left to prefer Young? I don't buy that it was just Tepper.

There seems to be a lot of so called "fans" around here who seem to be going out of their way to make things seem as bad as possible to the outside world. One narrative I'm seeing a lot of is that Tepper is impatient and doesn't give people time to do their job. Let's try to look at facts here: Was he too patient or impatient with Ron? Was he too patient or impatient with Hurney? Was he too patient or impatient with Rhule? Was he too patient or impatient with Frank? Was he too patient or impatient with Fitt?

"Roster Builder" Does that means a different GM?

So with Frank getting fired there has been several narratives that are being pushed repeatedly. One of which is that Frank got Bryce forced on him. This is largely based on some reports that Tepper had heavy influence in us selecting Bryce. " Heavy influence" in itself is a pretty vague term. Did Tepper during the offseason tell the front office and coaches we needed to draft one of the top QBs and develop them? That is very possible, we had tried the retread route for the previous 5 years, didn't seem to work. By most accounts it was a pretty good QB class, and we had a really high pick. Honestly a lot of the fans wanted us to go that route. That would be considered influencing. What if the majority of the front office and coaches preferred Young and Tepper agreed with that and said let's make it happen. Owners usually sign off on big trades, especially to #1. That would also be considered influencing. What I don't believe though is that everyone in the organization wanted Stroud, but Tepper overruled them for Bryce. That just doesn't make sense, as the article that Mr. Scot just linked from Albert Breer states that Tepper often knows his limitations from a football perspective. I can't see him overruling the HC, GM, OC, QB coach, and Caldwell if they all felt like Stroud was better. Maybe if everyone was split, he was the deciding factor, that would be possible, more probably was that the majority liked Young and it wasn't so much Tepper influencing them to choose Young, but them influencing Tepper to prefer Young. Once all the parties presented the arguments for both Tepper could have preferred Young, that is very possible. If anythign Tepper's influence was more to go "get your guy" and their guy being Young. There is also a lot of talk about Frank liking Stroud, a lot of that is based on some guy telling Frank he has an idea of who Frank likes based on waht Frank preferring in the past. Let me clarify this isn't Frank saying what type of QB he likes, but some reporter telling Frank that he thinks he knows what Frank likes. Either way lets go with the Idea that Frank did like Stroud, maybe even McCown also, then who is left to steer Tepper towards Young. If Stroud fits the profile of, what Frank likes couldn't you make an argument that maybe Fitt liked Young, Fitt was used to a successful QB in Seattle who was short, also one of the plusses for Young in most scouting reports was his ability to make things happen outside of structure, which is very similar to Russ. Maybe the scouts preferred Young, maybe the OC? It's not crazy to think the GM and HC were split on which QB to take.

Not really. Most people who are using that tweet are doing so to point out that Tepper wasn’t the only one involved.

Keep twisting . what exactly did Holder say? Open secret that he influenced the decision doesn’t guarantee that Frank wanted Stroud. Frank could have, that’s very possible but you are extrapolating what you want out of a statement that isn’t mutually exclusive.

But those people were not quick to post that tweet since it doesn’t fit their agenda even though they are quick to post anything that does.

I know a lot of the so-called fans are hoping for the worst possible outcome, just so they criticize Tepper more, so you have this narrative that we won't be able to attract a top coach, but the fact is these jobs are rare. Is there always a chance there are a few certain coaches that might not want to coach here, maybe, but that can happen with other teams also. Either way they should be able to come up with some qualified candidates. The important part is picking the correct one. Luckily some in the national media understand this: https://x.com/RapSheet/status/1729186476359827490?s=20

Here again, show me where Holder said Reich himself preferred Stroud. The tweet said holder said he (he as in Holder ) knew the type of QB Reich liked. He isn’t quoting Frank he is quoting himself. Here again, deep down, Frank might have but let’s don’t misinterpret tweets to prove something that you want to be true.

So what is a good metric? Since points don’t mean anything in a football game

Made something??? We are 30th https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/opponent-points-per-game?date=2023-11-27

if you are referring to the tweet linked to me earlier, Frank doesn't tell Holder, Holder tells Frank who he think Frank wants. Thats totally different.

what did he say? We know about the "find a court in charlotte" comment, was there something else?

here again, it's not mutually exclusive. Saying Tepper pushed for Young, doesn't mean everyone else wanted Stroud. This is the entire problem with this entire narrative around here, people are inferring things based off of their own agenda. At the start of the draft season Tepper could have made it clear that he wanted to invest a drafted QB, the majority of the front office could have decided Young was the best option, and then Tepper could have pushed for the team to make it happen. Tepper might have even been the deciding voice if they were split over it. That is the same as Tepper heavily influencing the QB choice. Doesn't mean everyone else wanted Stroud.

Where exactly did you get confirmation that Fitterer, Reich, and McCown all wanted Stroud?

what exactly did they quote? I know there is the clip of "finding a court in charlotte" or whatever but was there more? I'm not saying there isn't a possibility that McCown liked Stroud more, just curious as to these quotes you are referencing.

I'm thinking we go the "hot" OC route for several reasons. Tried the CEO program builder (Rhule) didn't work. Tried the experienced HC Route, didn't' work. Also, for various reasons we have an incentive to make Bryce Young work. all this points to: Frank Smith, Ben Johnson, Bobby Slowik My guess is Slowik.

so... he was a decision made by a bunch of people who made other bad decisions, but he magically was a good decision. Like I said earlier, he might be great at what he does, but the fact is the front office as a whole has done terrible the past few years, safer thing is usually to clear house. Maybe this whole time he has been voicing concerns about all of the terrible decisions done and in that case I could see you make that argument, but in reality, I don't think your preference to keep him is based on anything tangible.

What reason to keep him? Don't get me wrong, he might be great but seriously what are you basing such a definitive answer on?

My point exactly, these reports don't tell me anything definitive. Holders piece says the owner engages, ok, so waht, that doesn't say that Reich wanted Stroud. Also in Stephan's tweet he says HE told Reich who he thought Frank wanted on his past comments. Here again, he isn't reporting that Frank said he wanted him. Also the fact that someone reports that the owner heavily "influenced" the choice for Young doesn't mean that only Tepper wanted Young and nobody else did. That is the problem with this entire narrative, just because Tepper liked Young the most that doesn't mean nobody else did. Those things aren't mutually exclusive. I do think there is a chance Frank might have preferred a different QB, totally possible but the fact is the only articles from connected sources that have specifically said who Frank liked stated he like Young, as did Fitt.

I would be a bit surprised if Morgan is still here after this season, so I'm not sure if his acquaintance helps anyone. McCloughan would be tempting. Like you said he has some baggage, but he does have history of being an excellent talent evaluator. In regard to McClay, Dallas does do a good job in regard to talent acquisition but with Jerry and his son I have my questions who gets the credit.

It "Seems", lol Don't get me wrong, there is a chance that Frank wanted Stroud, I'm not saying he didn't, but a lot of the articles are inferring things. The only articles from reputable, connected reporters (the guys you tend to take as gospel), where they actually put a name to a QB, tend to say both Fitt and Frank liked Bryce from the start. That was said around draft time and even recently. You were quick to post the article where they had the magical moment when they both revealed their choice to each other.