AU-panther

more dodging, as expected. Maybe you did, but all I remember is the really vague "they were all bad" type comments.

I said Paradis wasn’t our worst offensive lineman this past Sunday? Do you disagree with that? you won’t answer that

Here again, you commented on my post because you thought I was disagreeing with the OP, I explained how you were wrong and you are still trying to change the subject. Let it go And actually what I said in my post was true. Im sorry it bothers you if someone uses facts.

You specifically said I used PFF to disagree with the OP, which shows your lack of comprehension of what the OP and I said. Maybe you are just that quick to try and take shots at me. Here again I never said anything about being smarter because I read PFF I was using pressure stats to reinforce my opinion that Paradis wasn’t our worst lineman that day like a lot of people think. I actually think you, with all of your football knowledge, agree with that. Also I don’t go out of my way to appear smarter, I just happen to have informed opinions so they just happen to be right more often.

LoL You accuse me of using PFF to disagree with the OP, but when I point out how wrong you were you respond how you always do. This is pointless.

There is some validity to the idea of power vs speed, but also there were some open tackles missed and containment lost that are just bad football plays regardless of your "style".

LOL Actually PFF said pretty much exactly what Spanish said. Paradis wasn't as bad in pass protection as some think, actually we had a few players that were worse, which is also what Spanish and PFF said. Neither said he did good, just that he wasn't the worst. Spanish also said he did good in the running plays which is also what PFF said. Also is pretty clear around here that the vast majority of people around her that mock PFF have no understanding of PFF at all. We have three pages of people mocking PFF for Paradis' pass blocking, when in fact they had a poor grade him. People don't know which grade to look at. I never said PFF was a authority to prove Spanish was wrong, that is your misunderstanding. I listed their pressure counts, and would happily like to see those numbers from another source. I actually went through and tracked counts for Paradis just to see myself. As a fan I want to know who is doing the worst, not that I can do anything about it, but its what fans do. Our line is terrible, we all agree on that . Who do we as fans think is the biggest culprit? A lot of people think it is Paradis, I tend to disagree, PFF disagrees and by his post Spanish disagrees for this one day. Do you think Paradis is our worst offensive lineman?

Dodging it somemore. LOL lol, you love to criticize people's post but then you are afraid to actually have an opinion. My only point in this thread was that Paradis was not the worst lineman on that day. So if that doesn't matter to you I'm not sure why you decided to reply to one of my post to start with.

So you think Paradis did worse that Erving and Miller for the game?

But what you see is a stat you just aren't writing it down, so in reality you do care, you just don't do a good job of tracking it. You go off memory and the limited plays you notice. So in your limited eye test who did you see give up the most pressures? I didn't say Paradis was good enough, I said he played better than Miller or Erving, which is inline with what PFF said. So if you don't agree with PFF's grades are you saying those two played better? In regards to what Brian S said above he makes a valid point, but in reality Paradis didn't get graded high in pass protection. Everyone is upset about his grade but they don't even realize his actual pass protection grade was bad. If you do want to go by Brian S criteria to judge the lineman, which like i said is valid, you can still make the argument that Paradis played better than Erving and Miller in this game which is all I am saying.

Lol First of all PFF's grades aren't based on statistics, but I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. I asked if you had a better source for pressures per player for the game. I'm open to suggestions. How about you? Why don't you go back and actually watch each player on the line one at a time and chart how many pressures each allow, but then you might actually have an educated opinion, but its a lot easier just to be a sheep and follow what everyone else is perceiving. Are you saying that Erving and Miller had less pressures than Paradis?

Pressure right after the half you referenced when Paradis wasn't blocking anyone like you said, Double A gap, he had the guy on the right, that guy delayed and then looped around. Its not run blocking he isn't going towards the guy to block him he is watching his zone. RB had the left defender. Once the guy did blitz Paradis blocked him from the side. Even if you call that a pressure its one of the 2 or 3? 4th sack, he blocked his guy. Defender lines up over Paradis, and attacks outside shoulder of Paradis. Daley didn't come off to help as much as Daley's guy looped around. Watch the play in slow motion, Daley actually ends up behind the defender and Paradis still has good inside leverage on the defender and rides him to the side of Sam. Miller's guy actually got the sack.

Do you have a better source for pressures allowed per player for the game? Actually I went back and charted Paradis myself and it was inline with what PFF had. Paradis didn't play well in the pass game, but Erving and Miller played worse.

Anyone who thinks Paradis was the worst pass protection guy needs to learn how to watch film. He wasn't good but there were two other guys who played a lot worse and gave up more pressures. That first sack looked so bad, where Paradis got thrown back so far, that I think everyone is projecting that out to the entire game. According to this NFL Week 4 Game Recap: Dallas Cowboys 36, Carolina Panthers 28 | NFL News, Rankings and Statistics | PFF Paradis had 1 sack allowed and 2 pressures allowed. Ervin had 1 sack allowed and 6 pressures allowed. Miller had 1 sack allowed and 5 pressures allowed. Also I'm pretty sure Miller had a penalty and maybe Ervin also. And for those that don't trust PFF, those numbers are actually close to what I saw when I went back and charted the game. All three were bad, but if you actually go back and watch those three players on every snap, not the ball, Paradis was the least bad of those three and to be honest his PFF grade is inline with that. His actual PFF grade was low for pass protection, his overall grade looked better than people expected because he played above average in the run game.

I don't think he had a single bad rush snap. Everyone is expecting some Larry Allen type of highlight where he pushes his guy back 4 yards but that isn't reality of how most line plays work. He was really never the reason a run play didn't work, and like you said he had a couple of + plays. As far as the pass blocking goes he had the sack, which looked horrible, and I think two other pressures, most of his other snaps were fine. Also he had no penalties. PFF graded him below average, seems fair.

Thank you, easily the best post of the thread. So while everyone is making fun of PFF, you actually took time to watch the players in question, and like you said Paradis wasn't as bad as everyone is making out. I actually took time to watch every one of his snaps and to be honest his PFF score isn't that crazy. PFF actually had his pass rush grade a good bit lower, which is expected because he gave up a sack and I think 2 pressures, which was actually a lot better than several other guys on the line. HIs rush grade was actually pretty good and was the reason his overall grade was better than people expected. To me, Ervin and Miller seemed to struggle the most on the line that day and actually that is reflected in the PFF article I posted earlier.

According to the game recap Paradis’ pass block grade was actually pretty bad. He must had some decent run block plays. I was a little surprised to see that 9 of the 14 pressures were attributed to Erving and Miller. It’s not like we can really just blame one guy on the line.

After the first two games I thought that might be the case, but I’m not so sure how. I would love to see some pressure allowed numbers for each guy.

He has struggled when kept clean in the past. Some of us posted a tweet earlier in the year that talked about his accuracy being one of the worst in the league with a clean pocket. Here is another article talking about him struggling with no pressure: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/sam-darnold-2021-outlook-evaluating-panthers-new-qb-and-how-he-can-revitalize-his-career-in-carolina/amp/

I know, I was just saying that our current line was what was planned and hoped for by the staff. It’s not because guys retired or someone got hurt. The fact that both situations where “planned” is embarrassing.

We not only signed, but signed early in free agency the left side of our current offensive line. Sounds like a plan.

Nice post. Its a very valid question. Play calling and play design both factor in, hard to say how much.

According to your chart we are 24th in pressure % allowed. That is bottom 10. That is bad, not slightly below average. People get to caught up in exact rankings arguing over a one team being 25th and another 29th. They are both bad. Divide the list into thirds, top third is good, middle third is average, bottom third is bad. We are bad. Add in the fact that our yards before contact rushing is 31st. We clearly have one of the worst performing lines in the NFL.

You keep trying to prove that our O-line isn't bad but you are using limited stats to do so. You need to equate those stats for number of drop backs. TB has 9 hurries, we have 13 but they have over 30% more pass attempts. Instead of looking at number of pressures lets look at percentage of drops backs where the QB is pressured. 2021 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com Saints are 29th in the league, we are 24th, Atlanta is 22nd, and TB is 2nd. Basically Carolina, Atlanta, and New Orleans are all doing a bad job and all three are below average, but you keep trying to convince yourself that we are somewhere close to average this year but we aren't.

actually it might be, this graph is disturbing. 2021 NFL Advanced Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com Yards per game can be misleading, heavily influenced by coaching philosophy. Yards per carry can be somewhat misleading because of the ability of your RB. According to this graph in yards before contact, which is basically how soon does the RB get touched, we are second to last at 1.7 yards, to put that in perspective the Jets are 14th at 2.6. I would think yards before contact would be a pretty good indicator of your O-lines ability to get a push. Of course scheme helps some, but still its very bad for our O-line but honestly it is inline what we are seeing on the weekend. So in yards before contact rushing we are 31st, in pressure % allowed we are 24th, clearly we have one of the worst lines in the game at this point.