AU-panther

I know you have watched all of Howell's games so I'll copy you on this. If you read the mock draft I posted earlier the author states that Howell had more big time throws over the last 3 years than any QB in the draft. I'm thinking the media has maybe pushed Howell down the boards more than the teams. I won't surprise me at all if he doesn't go higher than a lot of fans think. I know its probably hard for you to be totally objective but do you really think there is a chance he falls to later in the first round.

Wrong How often is a QB really the best player available? Unless you have the #1 pick in a generational year (Luck, Manning, Lawrance) a non-QB will almost always be rated higher. Chase Young probably had a higher grade than Burrow. QBs are in a different league based on improtance, you can't compare them to non-QBs.

Even pick 6 doesn't get you the "can't miss QB". This past draft you would have got QB4. You can't compare Trevor and Wilson vs this year's class because they were not available for us. Lets say we can pick QB1 this year, that means this year vs last year actually looks like: Fields and Jones vs Howell, Corral, Picket, Willis. All of sudden the classes don't seem that much different.

KC and Mahomes is a terrible example. Everyone wants to wait for a better QB class but Mahomes was in a terrible QB class. Trubisky was the first QB off the board, think about that. If anythign drafting Mahomes would be more like a team falling in love with a QB this year and taking a chance. Having a good team helps Mahomes but it doesn't change the fact that KC took a chance on a QB. Do you honestly think Darnold would be just as successful as Mahomes if he was drafted by KC?

You might be right but you can't count on that. There is alot of parity in the NFL. Most people agree Miami tried to tank for Tua a few years ago and still drafted 5th. Tua ended falling, but that doesn't change the fact there are always a lot of bad teams. Think about this. If you reverse all of our one score games (the games we won and lost), we go 9-8 and I think make the playoffs. The difference between winning and losing in the league is small.

Agree Also, people don't understand QBs aren't even money bets, you don't have to be right as often. I've said it before, if Team A spends their next 3 1st round picks on a QB and goes 1/3 and Team B spends their next 3 1st round picks on non-QBs and goes 3/3, Team A is in way better shape and it's not even close, assuming neither team has a good QB to start with.

The 1st QB at 12 this year could have a higher grade than the 5th QB next year at 12. Ranking is irrelevant, all that matters is grade. If next years class is so talented they might be gone by the time we pick. Everyone talks about this past class being so talented but the fact is only 2 of the top 5 were available where we picked. You can't compare Trevor and Wilson to next years class because they weren't available. In reality the comparison is more like: Fields and Jones vs Howell, Corral, Pickett, Willis. When you look at it like that it doesn't look as different.

Exactly. What if next year's class has 4 guys that are all more "alpha" but they get drafted before us and the 5th QB we pick is a worse prospect then the 1st or 2nd QB this year. In reality all of these people who are wanting to wait for a better class of QBs, should also be preaching for us to go full blown tank. Wanting a "can't miss' QB and being competitive this year aren't really two compatible agendas.

You don't know that, none of us do. On paper this class doesn't look as good as last year but it might not turn out that way. Also there is no guarantee that next year's class will have a better prospect where we are picking, then this year. The overall class might be better next year but what if the good ones get drafted in the top 10 and we are picking 11. We might actually end up with a worse prospect then next year.

I'm not saying you force a pick, but sooner or later you have to gamble on one. Might not be this year, but sooner or later you do. We can draft a LT this year, and I'm not saying I wouldn't, but even if we do and he works out we are still bad because we don't have a QB. Maybe we go 7-10 instead of 5-12/ Big picture QB is our biggest need and the hardest to find.

Just because the QB didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. You have to roll the dice, missing is part of it. The chance of finding a good QB in the draft is low, the chance of finding one without drafting one is even lower.

you don't Bengals have a terrible O-line. Your O-line needs to be just good enough to allow your QB to be good. There is only so much your O-line can do. The QB is immensely more important and harder to find.

fans confuse arm strength with the ability to make big time throws. They are looking to the guy that can throw 75 yards. Tom Brady makes as many big time throws as anyone in the league but I would guess in a long throw competition, he would probably come in bottom 10 in the league in distance.

Maybe, but he might actually do ok in some power schemes, especially as a LG being asked to pull a lot. He actually has the athleticism to pull and to also get to the next level depending on the run play. Honestly where he plays in the future is going to be hugely influenced by our next OC and OL coach. Trying to decide where he is best at now is bit pointless.

Bengals just won a playoff game because they found a QB. Their fans have hope for the next 15 years because they found a QB. The Bills just won a playoff game because they found a QB. Their fans have hope for the next 15 years because they found a QB. Everyone wants that Luck or Lawrance type of prospect but that very rarely happens. Look at Burrow and Allen, opposite ends of the spectrum. Allen has loads of physical tools, but he played for a smaller school and had accuracy problems, just like Trey Lance. How often last year did people talk about Lance being too risky. On the other hand, Burrow played for a bigtime school, great accuracy, and great production, but how often did people talk about his "low ceiling". He could be in this year's draft and half of our fans would complain because he can 't run fast enough or throw hard enough. You don't need a great O-line to win in this league, but you do need a good QB. Heck you don't even need a good o-line if your QB is good enough. Conversely it doesn't matter how great your O-line is if your QB is terrible. A great QB with an average line will win a lot more than a great O-line with an average QB, there is only so much your O-line can do. Problem with our fan base is our O-line has been so historically bad everyone has lost track of that. Finding a good QB is hard, you can do everything right and it still now work out, you have to take your chances and hope for some good fortune. Finding a "good enough" O-line is the easy part of the equation. Not saying every staff can, not saying our staff can, but overall putting together a good enough O-line is a lot more predictable than finding a franchise QB.

Here is another tweet by Mike Renner in regards to Sam Howell He also has a mock draft with Sam being the 1st QB off the board, going to the Panthers. 2022 NFL Mock Draft: Carolina Panthers select QB Sam Howell at No. 6, New Orleans Saints land Ole Miss QB Matt Corral at No. 16 | NFL Draft | PFF

Not looking to get into the QB vs OL debate, but I think at the very least there will be some people around here with some interest in this year's QB class. We all can easily find the basic stats such as completion percentage, yards, and TDs, but during the draft season there will be plenty of other stats and tidbits about these guys, usually in the form of tweets. I'll try to keep what I find in this one thread. Feel free to add to it, it might help people form an opinion one way or the other about these guys. I'll start it off with a longest throw comparison I saw on Twitter. These aren't necessarily the longest throws they can make, but instead the longest throws they attempted this past season.

People are just looking for things to complain about at this point. All of this arm length and to a lesser extent the versatility talk has just took a life of its own. If I'm going to criticize Rhule its going to be more about signing Teddy and then trading for Sam.

Everyone becomes an expert with hindsight. Rhule needs to learn to say less. He wasn't the only person in the league who had doubts about Slater playing LT at a high level, he should have just said they had Horn rated higher and both positions were needs and leave it at that.

Doesn’t look like that is going to happen so I’m the meantime I’ll take any change that might help

So you would prefer him just to do nothing?

Reddick probably had over 800 snaps, there is a lot more that goes into a grade than just 11 sacks. also 67 isn’t horrible

Doesn’t matter. Getting rid of some of the bad coaches is better than none of the bad coaches even if the methodology is bad.

We all get that, but the reality is it doesn't look like it's going to happen. Next best thing is for him to get rid of the bad coaches under him and try to replace them with better coaches. These moves are a start.

I get that, but to be honest whether any of us are upset or not really doesn't matter at this point. As a fan I might not get the changes that i want but hopefully the changes that do happen work out. These seem like good moves. Our O-line was terrible. I think most of us agree the talent might not be there but there did seem to be a lot of communication issues, which is often a by product of coaching. D-line struggled against the run. Pass rushing is often talent, run D is often about discipline and responsibility, which is often coaching.