AU-panther

So the Patriots with one of the best O-lines got throttled by a team with an average O-line. Wonder what the difference was?

This is the problem with QB evaluation, people keep looking for tangible traits, its not that easy. Alot of guys can make a throw but can the QB see the throws. 3rd and 9 and 1st read is covered, why does Brady throw it where he does whereas a bad QB tries a different throw. Different guys definitely have more tools but the processing is the biggest ability.

you made a specific reference in regard to drafting a QB so i asked a specific question about an OL so you answer with a vague response....

do you think drafting a single lineman will?

LG has got too much flack about Herbert. There were a lot of people who had their doubts about him. He was the typical guy taht looked the part and had some physical traits, but he had accuracy issues in college. Also he played terrible in some big games. Everyone tried to say I told you so after the fact.

nobody is saying picking one automatically makes you great, but historically the best way to find a franchise QB is to draft one, and draft one early, and develop him, which we haven't done. We keep looking for shortcuts.

So we would have been better with a great O-line and Clausen as a QB? The QB is the most important and hardest piece to find, this idea of waiting until the rest of the team is great and then you can just add a franchise QB when it is convenient is rather risky.

This is what I can't figure out. If his goal is to win now, he signs a vet QB, and drafts a LT or some non-QB who he thinks can help win now. Maybe even one of the DEs. Maybe trade down. If he drafts a rookie QB and shows some growth that might buy some time like you said, but that can be really risky. It almost feels like a QB call would have to come from Tepper, but I could totally be wrong.

so all those times the QB went first they were they highest rated player, please. QBs almost always get overdrafted. How good the class is rated is irrelevant. All that matters is what is available when you pick. QB 5 next year at 10 might be worse than QB1 this year at 6. Look at this past year. Lawrance and Wilson seem like a lot better prospect then anything we could pick this year but they were not available so it doesn't matter. In reality last year vs this year looks more like Fields and Jones vs Pickett, Howell, Corral, and Willis. When you look at like that the classes don't seem that much different. Maybe I would still take Fields over anyone this year but overall you don't see the gap like you do when you include Lawrance and Wilson. If you want to wait for the can't miss type of prospect that's fine, but then we need to tank.

lol, what skill sets? What physical limitations are you talking about? Do you really think there isn't a prospect in this draft that can throw it hard enough? So, every one of these prospects have a weaker arm then all of the good QBs in the league? or slower than some of the good QBs in the league. This isnt Madden, you don't need 99 speed or throw power to be good. With that being said none of these QBs might end up being good but it's not going to because they don't have the tools its going to be because they are bad at playing at QB.

Like I said, can't miss QBs don't fall to pick 10 in the league. There is more to a QBs skill set than running fast or throwing the ball far. You are probably the type of fan who thought Burrow would be a bust because his "ceiling" was too low.

If they were that highly rated they wouldn't have made it to pick 10. You are looking at it with hindsight. Their fan bases were probably saying the same thing you are, "lets wait until a loaded class with a can't miss prospect."

I know you have watched all of Howell's games so I'll copy you on this. If you read the mock draft I posted earlier the author states that Howell had more big time throws over the last 3 years than any QB in the draft. I'm thinking the media has maybe pushed Howell down the boards more than the teams. I won't surprise me at all if he doesn't go higher than a lot of fans think. I know its probably hard for you to be totally objective but do you really think there is a chance he falls to later in the first round.

Wrong How often is a QB really the best player available? Unless you have the #1 pick in a generational year (Luck, Manning, Lawrance) a non-QB will almost always be rated higher. Chase Young probably had a higher grade than Burrow. QBs are in a different league based on improtance, you can't compare them to non-QBs.

Even pick 6 doesn't get you the "can't miss QB". This past draft you would have got QB4. You can't compare Trevor and Wilson vs this year's class because they were not available for us. Lets say we can pick QB1 this year, that means this year vs last year actually looks like: Fields and Jones vs Howell, Corral, Picket, Willis. All of sudden the classes don't seem that much different.

KC and Mahomes is a terrible example. Everyone wants to wait for a better QB class but Mahomes was in a terrible QB class. Trubisky was the first QB off the board, think about that. If anythign drafting Mahomes would be more like a team falling in love with a QB this year and taking a chance. Having a good team helps Mahomes but it doesn't change the fact that KC took a chance on a QB. Do you honestly think Darnold would be just as successful as Mahomes if he was drafted by KC?

You might be right but you can't count on that. There is alot of parity in the NFL. Most people agree Miami tried to tank for Tua a few years ago and still drafted 5th. Tua ended falling, but that doesn't change the fact there are always a lot of bad teams. Think about this. If you reverse all of our one score games (the games we won and lost), we go 9-8 and I think make the playoffs. The difference between winning and losing in the league is small.

Agree Also, people don't understand QBs aren't even money bets, you don't have to be right as often. I've said it before, if Team A spends their next 3 1st round picks on a QB and goes 1/3 and Team B spends their next 3 1st round picks on non-QBs and goes 3/3, Team A is in way better shape and it's not even close, assuming neither team has a good QB to start with.

The 1st QB at 12 this year could have a higher grade than the 5th QB next year at 12. Ranking is irrelevant, all that matters is grade. If next years class is so talented they might be gone by the time we pick. Everyone talks about this past class being so talented but the fact is only 2 of the top 5 were available where we picked. You can't compare Trevor and Wilson to next years class because they weren't available. In reality the comparison is more like: Fields and Jones vs Howell, Corral, Pickett, Willis. When you look at it like that it doesn't look as different.

Exactly. What if next year's class has 4 guys that are all more "alpha" but they get drafted before us and the 5th QB we pick is a worse prospect then the 1st or 2nd QB this year. In reality all of these people who are wanting to wait for a better class of QBs, should also be preaching for us to go full blown tank. Wanting a "can't miss' QB and being competitive this year aren't really two compatible agendas.

You don't know that, none of us do. On paper this class doesn't look as good as last year but it might not turn out that way. Also there is no guarantee that next year's class will have a better prospect where we are picking, then this year. The overall class might be better next year but what if the good ones get drafted in the top 10 and we are picking 11. We might actually end up with a worse prospect then next year.

I'm not saying you force a pick, but sooner or later you have to gamble on one. Might not be this year, but sooner or later you do. We can draft a LT this year, and I'm not saying I wouldn't, but even if we do and he works out we are still bad because we don't have a QB. Maybe we go 7-10 instead of 5-12/ Big picture QB is our biggest need and the hardest to find.

Just because the QB didn't work out doesn't mean it wasn't the right choice. You have to roll the dice, missing is part of it. The chance of finding a good QB in the draft is low, the chance of finding one without drafting one is even lower.

you don't Bengals have a terrible O-line. Your O-line needs to be just good enough to allow your QB to be good. There is only so much your O-line can do. The QB is immensely more important and harder to find.

fans confuse arm strength with the ability to make big time throws. They are looking to the guy that can throw 75 yards. Tom Brady makes as many big time throws as anyone in the league but I would guess in a long throw competition, he would probably come in bottom 10 in the league in distance.