grimesgoat

I'm still not convinced Darnold is not salvageable. No way he's worth the 20m price tag he gets this year (bad decision there), but barring injury he'll probably be around a long time in this league. In the right environment, he may even be successful. Giving up a 2nd and 4th for a former first round QB that had languished in a dis-functional environment for 3 years was not considered a huge cost at the time. It was better than giving up future firsts to move up to get Fields or Lance. Hindsight is 20/20. Had we known Fields would be there at 8, would we have done the deal for Darnold? Maybe not. Who knows, maybe there is a team out there that sees the dis-functional environment here in Panther land and thinks - 'poor Sam, I can fix that...how about a 4th rounder?'

There are some silly takes on this thread due to a misunderstanding of CMCs Contract. In 2022, our choices are - keep CMC with a cap hit of 14.3m, or trade/cut him for a cap hit of 26.6m. There is no savings. We lose the player and an additional 12.3m. We're paying 12.3m for whatever we can get in a trade. Who wants to pay 12.3m for a 2nd or a 3rd rounder? Or we keep him for a year. Maybe he returns to form or maybe he's hurt all year. Who knows. Then in 2023 our choices are - keep CMC with a cap hit of 17.7m or trade/cut him for a cap hit of 12.8m. We save 4.9m and if traded, we get something for him. This is a far more likely scenario. Unless someone is giving me a 1st and 2nd for CMC, I'm not losing that extra 12.3m this year.

Gotta trade back. If you have to have a QB, fine - but don't fall in love with just one. At least one of Pickett or Corral will probably still be around at 11 or 12. Slide back and pick up an extra pick or two (even if not equal value based on trade chart). We have so many needs and really need another 2nd or 3rd to play with. Sign a FA vet guard to work next to Christensen. Draft a G in whatever round we get for moving back a few spots. This guy should be able to start right away at RG. Moton - Draftee - Elf - Vet FA - Christiansen with Brown/Erving are backups. That seems better than what we trotted out last year. I'm also counting on our new Offensive Coordinator to make a difference as well. Whoever we draft at QB should definitely sit at least 6-8 games before sniffing the field.

Of course he has final say. Its his team. How is this news? The GM's job is to get the players the coach thinks he needs to win. The GMs job is also to help guide him to the right players. If Rhule wants somebody that everyone knows will suck, the GM needs to talk him out of it. I think Fitterer has done that reasonably well (other than Darnold - which turned out to be a bit of a head scratcher). Its not like they were reaching on guys in the draft. Horn will be fine. Most people were mocking Marshall and Nixon in the first and second rounds. Tremble, Christensen, and Brown were all being mocked in the 3rd or 4th round. We filled needs everywhere. While every pick will not be an all-pro, I believe we got some solid talent and contributors throughout the draft. Once the coach has his guys and he fails to win, he will get fired. I think Rhule needs to win at least 9 games next year to keep his job. (believe it or not, Darnold went 7-6 with the jets in 2019, so it may be possible) We just need to draft well again this year, ride with Darnold one more time, and grab our franchise QB next year.

I like the mock, but I'd slot a TE instead of Strange. 3 rookie OL seems like overkill. We'll probably sign someone in free agency and have Christensen - FA - Elflein - Brown - Moton on board with Erving as a swing tackle. We need a couple other guys for sure, but 3 seems like too much. We need a TE bad. There seem to be quite a few slotted in that round 4/5 area that would do the trick.

I think the idea will be to draft a QB and let him sit for 8-10 weeks. I think Howell, Corral, or Pickett all have a chance to be somewhat successful if given some time to learn and get up to speed. And at least one of these guys will be available around picks 15-20. They will trade back, grab an extra 2nd, and pick Howell or Picket somewhere in the 12-18 pick range. Then they use the second to trade back and pick up an extra third or two. I think they want to walk out with a Day-1 starting guard and a pass-catching TE, along with a developmental QB. The rest of the draft (picks 4,5,5,6) will be for the defense. Darnold will be mediocre, but with a temporarily healthy CMC, they should be able to scratch out some wins early. Maybe go 3-5 or 4-6 before turning it over to our new hero. Picking a QB allows for the argument that the plan is working and they are developing their franchise QB, even if the wins are not there. They may be able to get away with it if they can manage 7 wins and are competitive in their losses. But if the team looks like they have packed it in, like they did late last year, then he done.

If all 3 Tackles are gone, that leaves Hutchison, Thibodeaux, or Hamilton. I could get on board with any of these guys.

My dream scenario is - Denver is worried ATL will pick their guy so they give us 9 and 41 for 6. Then Minn and WFT get nervous about getting their guy at QB so they get in a bidding war for 9. The winner gives us a 2nd and 3rd. Minnesota offers 12 and 46 and 77. WFT offers 11 42 73. WFT Wins. 11: Cross 41: Edge or G 42: Edge, G, or TE 73: G, TE, or LB

Really like this one. I'd be tempted to swap out a FS for Zappe in the 4th. And maybe a development DT in the 7th instead of another OT. 4 OL just seems like overkill.

So many options. Here's my plan. 1. Restructures. Convert Moton's 2022 16m base salary to bonus (15m) and base (2m). Add a void year. Cap hit changes from 19m. to 9m. Save 10m. 2. Extend DJ - 4 yrs/60m. 25m bonus with void year. 2022 11m base salary converts to cap hit of 6m. Saves 5. Now we have around 40m in cap room. 3. The following players walk and could net comp picks...Reddick, Jackson, Jones, Thomas, Carter, Burris, Cam. Maybe we get 3 extra picks for 2023. This will help counteract void years. 4. Re-sign Gilmore (2/20m, 12m bonus, 1 void year, cap hits=5m, 11m, 4m). 5. Re-sign at reasonable deals Erickson, Zylstra, Haynes. 6. Move Chinn back to LB. Now we need a SS. Key Needs: QB, OL, OL, TE, MLB, SS. Remaining Assets: around 30m Cap, Picks 1,4,5,5,6,7. 7. If a "franchise" QB is there at 6, try to move back to 9 (Denver) or 11 (WFT) and grab an extra 2nd and future 2nd. 8. If I can't move back, Ekwonu is my pick (assuming Neal is gone). If I can move back - the Iowa center is the pick assuming Ekwonu is gone. 9. If I was able to move back, I'm looking at QB, SS, MLB, or G in the second - whichever offers the best value. 10. 4th, 5th, 5th, 6th, 7th: MLB, SS, G, DE, TE in no particular order. 11. I only consider QB in this draft if I am able to pick up an extra 2nd by moving back. Otherwise, Darnold is my guy until 2023 when the new regime comes in and we are picking top 5. 12. I target TE and maybe SS in free agency. Nothing flashy. Hang onto those comp picks and around 20m for emergencies and maximum rollover. Probable OL: Moton, Brown/Draftee, Elf or Iowa Center, Ekwonu/Draftee, Christiansen. Erving is a Swing. With potentially 2 rookies and 2 second-year players, I believe there will be improvement, but not enough to prevent us from getting a very high pick in 2023. Eventually this group could be very good. In 2023, the new regime will have some decent talent: a very good defense, a top 5 pick, and hopefully 3 extra comp picks, and an extra 2023 second. Just need to find and develop a franchise QB for long-term.

thanks.

where?

Let's say there are 2 quarterbacks that stand out after the combine - Pickett and Corral. Maybe Houston takes a QB at 3, so now there is only 1 QB left with a first round grade. WFT (9), Falcons (10), Broncos (11), Saints (15), Steelers (17) may all be interested. We could find ourselves in a bidding war if 2 of these teams fall in love with drafting a QB. If I could, I'd trade the 6th to WFT for the 9th and 40th. At 9 I'd go with Ikem or the Iowa Center. Then at 40, if we go Center at 9, there are about 4 OTs valued in the 35-45 range. This will give us a decent OL and Darnold will not be constantly running for his life.

The only chance Rhule has is for CMC to come back and play well. There is no one in the draft that will move the needle as much as a healthy CMC.

Mariota or Trubiski will cost draft capital in comp picks. I'd roll with Darnold and if Cam wants to be a backup, I'll take him. Given Darnold's history, Cam should get some opportunities to play.

Among RBs, Elliott is 8th in yds from scrimmage. Mixon is 3rd, Chubb is 5th, Cook is 6th, Kamara is 11th. Sure they get hurt and miss a few games. But the production is still among the league leaders. I'll grant you these extensions are usually 5 years or so and by the 4th or 5th year the production has fallen off. Usually the guaranteed money is somewhat front loaded, so if a guy has to be cut in year 4 or 5, the dead cap hit isn't crippling. For example, when CMC reaches the old age of 29 in 2025, his cap hit is 13.6m but the dead cap hit is only 1.5m. Similar sized guys like Payton, Martin, Dorsett, Thomas all played well into their 30's with some of their most productive years occurring in their late 20's and early 30's. CMC could do the same. Tossing him in the trash at age 24 is insane. Especially when you don't save any money by doing it. Just dumb reactionary panic.

History has shown... Elliott was extended in 2019 - Since then 4300 yds from scrimmage and 34 TDs in 3 seasons. Cook was extended in 2020 - Since then 3200 yds from scrimmage and 23 TDs in 2 seasons. Kamara was extended in 2020 - Since then 2800 yds from scrimmage and 30 TDs in 2 seasons. Chubb was extended in 2021 - He's got 1400 yds from scrimmage and 9 TDs this year. Henry was extended in 2020 - Since then 3200 yds from scrimmage and 27 TDs. Mixon was extended in 2020 - in 2020 he was injured (600 yds, 4tds). in 2021 he has 1500 yds from scrimmage and 16 TDs. All these guys were extended for comparable money and are among the best in the league. CMC seems to be the exception to your rule.

You could see it with Cam. He couldn't throw the ball more than 20 yards. CMC didn't even need surgery. Just rest. He's expected to be 100% next year. He could get hurt again I suppose. After all, this is tackle football. But why just assume he'll get hurt again (and therefore flush 26m) just because he pulled a hammy or tweaked his ankle?

I call bullshit. I was and still am paying attention. Dude had played in 48 straight games when he signed the extension. He kept himself in better shape than anyone on the team. And I still believe if the Panthers were competing over the past 2 years, he would've been out there. Just no reason risk a major injury or more wear and tear. Cutting him now is just ignorant. If we cut him now, we eat 26m in dead money in 2022. If we keep him, the cap hit hit is 14m in 2022 and the dead money in 2023 is around 13m. Its basically a wash. When healthy, he's a game changer in his prime. I would only consider a late first for him. A team like Buffalo or Arizona may see him as the missing link. They are built to win now and may believe he adds more value to a SB run than some late first DT.

oh good. another opportunity to bash CMC. Recall, when he signed the extension he had just wrapped up a year with 1400 yard rushing, 1000 yard receiving and 19 TDs. Dude had played 3 years and never missed a game. He was due to make less than $3m in 2020. So the panthers extended him. his cap hits were nearly identical to the hits that would have occurred had they not extended him and just picked up the 5th year option. This way he got some cash in his pocket and we said thank you to our stud RB. The guy played in 48 out of 48 games going into 2020. He was arguably the most valuable player in the NFL. He was only 24. He easily had 4-6 more productive years ahead. It was a no-brainer. Unfortunately the time machine was down that day and no one saw the injuries coming. Realistically, he would have played in a bunch of the games he missed over the last 2 years, but why bother. Unless there is a bombshell offer, he will be around at least 1 more year. Barring injury, he will put up 1500 all purpose yards and 8-10 TDs behind a rebuilt line. When healthy, he is a top 5 RB. Another dismal injury plagued year will result in cutting bait. New regime will enter and look to rebuild. The dead cap hit will only be 5.7m in '23 and '24 with 12m saved in '23. Hope it doesn't come to that because I love to watch the dude play. My 2 cents.

Yep - people forget we got a good player for that 3rd. Eventually he'll figure things out and we'll have a steal. We snagged the Houston 4th and extra 5th that somewhat makes up for losing the 2nd and 6th. I just have to keep reminding myself, if we still had our 2nd, we probably would not have Horn. We might have picked Fields who I do not believe will amount to much long term. Or we could have picked Horn anyway, rolled with Teddy B (who no one on here wanted) and be contemplating which mediocre QB we should pick with the second we still have. We just need to grab an OL stud in the first, a potential starter in the 4th, and ride it out until 2023 when we will likely have a very high pick and a new coaching staff. As someone else said, take the layup.

I agree with this. Let most of the vets go. Play the young guys. I'd add erickson (I don't remember him even bobbling a ball this year), Zylstra, Haynes, and Ricci for cheap if possible. I'd consider Mariota if Trubisky is out. Just no splash signings - let's keep our comp picks and develop the guys we have.