grimesgoat

I hate the idea of Watson being the face of the franchise for obvious reasons. But if we gotta do this, Darnold better be going out with those 3 firsts. If Burns has to go, so be it - but we need to get something back - like a 2nd or 3rd. If we dump Darnold's 18m and re-cast Watsons 35m base salary to some sort of bonus, we may be looking at 30m in cap in addition to the 30m or so we already have. We can then eat CMC's hit in a trade to buffalo for some additional draft capital. If we play our cards right, we could walk away with Watson, a second, a third, and 40m in cap. We can build something with that.

my prediction. 3 firsts, 2 seconds, DJ and Darnold for Watson and a 3rd. they have to dump darnold to free salary to cover the cost of trading CMC to buffalo for 2 2nds. they will then free salary by converting Watson salary to bonus, freeing 20m sign a solid fa guard. Move Christensen to LT. Draft a lb in the 2nd. A DE in the 3rd. A guard in the 4th. WR in 5th.

I’d rather fix the line this year, then take my chances with the QBs coming out next year. Grow organically.

I think if we really did offer 3 1sts, 2 2nds and a starter on the defense, Houston would have already grabbed it. They can't possibly think they can get more. My guess is the real offer is the 6th, next year's first and second, and Darnold. The panthers are not as stupid as many folks believe. But they will roll the dice on occasion. Everyone points to Darnold as a dumb move. Trading for him was certainly a risk, but a calculated risk. He's had his moments in the league. Panthers thought they could get something out of him and keep the 8th pick. The move may have looked a lot better had Horn stayed healthy. Who knows, maybe the Panthers win the Eagles or Minn game with better corner play. If Horn plays the whole year, the season may have turned out very differently. We would still have this year's third rounder as well. Horn getting hurt really made the trade look much dumber.

This is my guy. Trade back and get this guy.

No gaslighting. No one said anything about coaches. We're talking about free agent players. I think the key ingredients most of these 20-somethings are thinking about are money, opportunity to play, girls, friends/family/teammate relationships, fun things to do in town. A coach being around more than a year is not on the radar. And if the kid is good, he may think he can make a difference in how that coach's future plays out anyway.

You're in your mid twenties. You are offered millions of dollars to play a game you love in a fun city with thousands of beautiful southern women running around. You are about 3 hours from the beach. Taxes are reasonable. The weather is nice 10 months out of the year. The facilities are nice. His teammates are important. Does he already know guys on the team? Anyone he played with in HS or college? Maybe he's from NC. Maybe he played for a NC or SC school. Maybe he has family here. If he's got some pride - maybe he sees this as a challenge. He wants to make a difference. The coach may not be around past next year, but the next guy could be better. He's had multiple coaches in HS, college, NFL. What's one more? The possibility the coach is a lame duck is probably 10th on his consideration list. That argument is a complete joke. The only people that will not consider us are the ring-chasers. Hopefully we're not interested in those guys anyway.

there's not enough pie in the world for this response.

I will not enter the fray about the moral aspects of trading for Watson until we know more on Friday. This is for those that say it is too costly. I don't know if it is a reasonable offer - but here goes. Darnold + DJ + 3 1sts + 2nds for Watson. Houston gets a lot of draft capital for building and can absorb DJ/Darnold with the savings from trading Watson. Moving Darnold and DJ in a trade frees 29m. Watson will cost 35m, but we can convert that salary to bonus and drop the cap hit to 10m or so in 2022. Next we flip CMC to Buffalo (or similar) for a 2nd and a 2023 second. This will cost 18m dead. We come out with Watson, 50m in cap, and picks 2,4,5,5,6,7 in 2022. In 2023 we'll have a 2 (from buff), 3,4,5,6,7 plus comp picks for Reddick, Gilmore, etc. (maybe an extra 4 and 5). In 2024, we won't have a first or second, but could be decent by then with good investments. Putting aside the moral aspect, will we have enough cap and capital to build around Watson? (and for those who's only contribution will be "panthers will probably just draft poorly and overpay the wrong people", consider not saying these things this time. we know who you are and we know how you feel)

I for one appreciate the effort. It's what I've been saying since the news came out. But changing the huddle hive-mind from "Panthers dumb, contract dumb" to something more enlightened will be tough.

my preference. trade back with philly: 6 for 16, 51, 83. Greene (G) or Penning (T) at 16. Strong at 51. Tyler Smith (T) at 83.

I was ripped too. Some folks told me we'll have to give up a pick just to get someone to take him.

Only way they trade DJ is if they can't get a new deal done. He may be looking for something like 5 years 100m and we offer 3 yrs 40m. I'd rather trade him for a second and change, than have him walk next year for a comp 3rd not available intil 2024.

Totally expected. converted base salary to bonus, which spreads the hit out. Shaq is probably next, then an extension for DJ. They may get another 10m from these. Hopefully this is for a solid FA G and not for a vet QB. If Christensen is ready to start at LT, we pick up a good G in FA, then trade back in the first and draft another G, our line should be vastly improved with some decent coaching. Use the trade-back for a developmental QB in the second and we're truly building for the future.

No one can possibly know exactly what the production will be. They don't pay someone for past production - especially if it does not line up with what they think the future production will be. They think he can be a weapon and are paying for that belief. He showed potential when given the opportunity. But football is a tough life played by large people. He could put up 50-500 or he could get hurt in training camp and miss 3 years. That's why you don't fully guarantee all the money - so you can cut bait if things do not work out as you thought. In this case, if they are wrong - they can save 5m of the 16.5 and move on. In hindsight, salary often is out of balance with production. If you have a way of traveling to the future and find out if their belief is wrong, let us know. Otherwise you can wait it out like the rest of us.

In all likelihood, we will pay 11.5m spread over 3 years. That will not kill us. Someone actually complained they'd rather have Reddick, as if signing Thomas takes Reddick off the table. Look I get the production issue. Arnold wasn't brought here to be a blocker. We paid 3m hoping for 40-400. They think Thomas can give them something better if used (i.e. throw him the ball more than 1-2 times a game), plus he can block. In 2018, when Olsen was hurt, Thomas put up 25-240 in the last 5 games. Olsen was healthy in 2019 so he didn't get the looks, then in 2020-21 we never threw to the TEs. If McAdoo's offense uses the TEs as pass catchers, I fully expect 45 catches and 400-500 yards. That money will look all right if that happens. If he doesn't hit those targets, then we'll know we overpaid. Let's see it play out.

From what I read, I think it breaks down like this... Year 1: 6m bonus (2m per year) + 1m salary (guar) for a cap hit = 3m. Year 2: 0m bonus (2m per year) + 4m salary (1m guar) for a cap hit = 6m, Savings if cut = 1m (5m dead) Year 3: 0m bonus (2m per year) + 5m salary (0m guar) for a cap hit = 7m, Savings if cut = 5m (2 dead) The pearl-clutching about 5.5m per year is a myth. He is probably worth 3m in 2022. No one would come here for less, we don't have the draft capital to replace him, and we don't want to net out a comp pick if possible. He may be worth the 6m in 2023 if Mcadoo is right. He is likely to be cut in year 3 for the 5m in cap savings.

Philly has a boatload of picks this year, so it may make sense for them to consolidate somewhat. A more realistic trade with Philly might be 6 for 15, 51, 83, 123. This is a slight premium for us according to the trade chart. They keep 3 first rounders and still have 4 day 3 picks. It allows us to grab an instant starting guard in the first and some flexibility with a 2nd, 3rd, and an extra 4th. If 51 is too late for one of our targets, we may be able to slide up a little in the second by dangling one of our 4ths. Cine, Strong or Petit-Frere could all be in play around 51 and would probably all start for us.

If Thiboudeaux, Stingley, Gardner, or Hamilton are still there at 6 - they may want to move up. They can't get any of those guys at 15.

We really got a good deal on Bouye. If we re-sign Gilmore or Jackson, I bet they try to move him. Could be worth a 5th and saves us 3.5m. No one will touch Anderson. He'll never be worth the money we paid, but cure the dropsies and he's a decent weapon. What a bad extension that was. Cutting Fox saves 3m. Good luck finding someone comparable for that amount. We are already losing Reddick and Jones so can't see him going anywhere. Erving is a decent swing T. Saves 2m to cut (4.5m dead). It will be tough to find a vet swing T for 2m. Probably ride with him another year. Better OL coach should help here. Daley - No way we pay 2.5m to an average talent like this. He can be replaced with one of our 6ths at significantly less cost. Best of luck to Mr. Daley.

Surprised Jackson is not on that list. Bridgewater to TB?

I think CMC is the difference. When he played, we were 4-3. When he was out, we were 1-9. With our defense and a healthy CMC, we can field a competitive team regardless of our QB shortcomings. If CMC is hurt and misses half the season, we'll win 4-5 games and be picking in the top 5. Darnold will be gone and CMC will be cut. We can get a good QB there and start out fresh with a new coach. If he is healthy, our ceiling is probably 8 wins, which will put us picking around 10-14. We can still get a good young QB in that range but none of the top 3. If we have to pick a QB this year, I hope we move back, pick up a second, and select Strong. Give him a chance to sit and watch for a while and improve the OL with our first. I think he will be successful when the new coaching regime arrives next year.

Probably. Denver, Washington, Pittsburg, and Houston are all teams probably considering a QB upgrade with more available cap than us. Last thing I'd do is get in a bidding war. I still believe our best option is to try to trade back, grab an OL and LB in rounds 1 and 2, and roll with Darnold for another year. If everyone stays healthy (looking at you CMC), we may have a competitive season. Then we draft our favorite QB next year when the class looks to be a little better.

Releasing or trading your two best defensive players does not feel like great flexibility, but I agree they could claw their way out of it by punting some money into the future and/or gutting the roster. This is always an option. But my guess is that a new regime will want a clean slate. Get the finances in order (i.e. move cousins) and draft a QB. Keep your best pass rusher and your all-pro LB (coming off a 143 tackle/5 sack season). Take your lumps early in the honeymoon period with a rookie QB. Had we done this instead of trying to compete each year - we'd be in so much better shape. To be clear - I'm not advocating for Cousins. Don't want another 1-year rental. But I think he could be had with very little changing hands. It should be unnecessary to lose our first rounder.

Vikings are in really bad shape. They are over the cap by 18m, they owe Cousins 45m guaranteed, and Kellen Mond is their backup. I don't see a great deal of flexibility to find more money other than moving Cousins. I speculated this move on another thread, but I could see a Cousins for Darnold deal straight up, or maybe with a 1st round pick swap. Minn. gets a stopgap QB, the 6th pick to draft their future QB, and cap relief of 15-20m. Panthers keep a first rounder to draft an Offensive lineman and get a huge upgrade at QB. Maybe Minn. throws in one of their 6ths just to make us feel better.