TN05

Thomas Brown when it's fourth and one and the shotgun run fails for the fifth time in a row

Stop with the f****** shotgun runs on fourth and 1. What the heck.

Give Chubba the ball!

And then we won a playoff game, and played a tough half against Seattle. would an 8-7-1 season or 9-7 with no playoffs have been better? What matters more - playoffs, or a “winning season”? I’d take either at this point.

Would 2014 have been better if we went 9-7 and didn’t make the playoffs? Would 8-7-1 have been magically better? Not really. We made four playoff appearances in five years, with three straight division titles.

I wouldn’t call four playoff seasons in five years mediocre, personally

I wouldn’t call the five people here still defending Bryce Young “rational”. It’s hard for me to see how someone can see what we’ve all seen this year and see anything positive

Evero as HC with Rivera as DC would be worth considering

As bad as this year is, 2010 was worse. -212 point differential, which is just... insane. We've already scored more points (197) than that team did (196). And this team has, statistically, a top-four yards defense. For comparison, our defense in 2010 was 18th in yards and in 2001 it was 31st. 2010 was probably one of the 20 or 30 worst teams in NFL history, straight up. I think this is second or third-worst team in Panthers history. You can make an argument that 2001 was in large part awful due to terrible coaching and quarterbacking, but the core roster itself wasn't awful and was easily corrected within a year on defense (2002 was the second-best defense in the league and allowed the fourth-fewest points in any Panthers season). I'm not sure this roster can be patched up, because the talent in 2001 was mostly young whereas this team is kind of devoid of young talent.

You don’t understand, his superproccessing abilities are so superprecise that he doesn’t even need his eyes open when throwing. Hes that good!

His whiffs were almost entirely in late rounds, and even then he had a ton of really good hits. The fact of the matter is - we've never had a better drafter than him. And there was nobody in the league better at drafting generational talent in the first round. We got absolutely spoiled by a decade of first round home runs.

Also Derrick Brown and Brian Burns

We didn't "repeatedly get high draft picks". 7-9 was our floor for most of Hurney's tenure. Three of our best picks, Chris Gamble Jon Beason and DeAngelo Williams, were late first-rounders.

I maintain to this day that hiring Dave Gettleman kept this team from a Super Bowl win. Absolute trash GM who blew holes in our roster because of ego, couldn't draft for anything, and apparently tried to impose dress codes on players (???). Absolutely baffling.

Hurney's track record of first rounders was so good and we're sorely missing it now

God help us all

You've seen every NFL QB miss that type of throw, I've never seen Bryce make that type of throw.

He’d be Seifert 2.0 here

Given what he's shown so far this season, I'm genuinely not sure he'd even be drafted if there was a draft re-do.

I have opposed benching Bryce but frankly, we need to, if only to see what this team looks like with a different QB. We know what Bryce can do, but is he truly held back by a bad team or is he part of the problem?

Oh god, I got a flashback just hearing that name.

First half of the season (1-5): 137/213 (64%), 1,202 passing yards (200 per game, 5.6 yards per attempt), 7 TDs, 4 picks, 4 fumbles Second half of the season (0-6): 107/204 (52.5%), 990 passing yards (165 per game, 4.8 yards per attempt), 2 TDs, 5 picks, 4 fumbles This is putrid. I don't think keeping Bryce on the field is going to help him develop at this point, there has been no improvement through 12 games

Zig where the rest of the league is zagging - build defensively. We have a solid defensive unit, and a defensive coach could help turn this into a league-best defensive team, strong enough to hold the division for most of the next decade. This would also go a long way towards re-establishing an identity for this franchise. On offense, build power run for now. Bryce Young is bad, we know he's bad, but we don't know if he'll get better. Rebuilding the entire team to accommodate his numerous physical weakness just isn't a viable idea at this point. Focus on fixing the offensive line and receivers, and hope for the best, but this offense needs to transition back towards its strength - downhill running. If Bryce is this bad next year (that is to say, historically terrible), we'll be picking number-one with a quarterback we may be able to throw into a relatively good situation. Oh, and fire Scott Fitterer. Do that before anything else. Will this happen? Probably not. We'll get a scrap first-year offensive coordinator convinced he can be the one to save Bryce Young, it won't work, and Tepper will have learned nothing.

Blames this on whatever you want - but this is historically bad, and for the price we paid, unacceptable.

He's going to do this while refusing to admit that this team’s strength is defense, the defensive core is good, and outright dismissing the idea of a defensive coach in favor of whatever shiny new offensive coordinator he can convince to come here. And it will fail, and he’ll learn nothing.