SmokinwithWilly

Don't care if they won or lost. I'm so frustrated with Tepper and the FO, I have zero faith they would find their way out of a wet paper bag. 

This season was over the minute that no one thought there needed to be actual QB competition in camp. Bryce wasn't ready to start last year. He wasn't ready to start this year. We've wasted 2 seasons to figure out the obvious. 

Bryce is playing better and he may be a franchise QB and he may not. But once again we drafted guys early for potential instead of actually being able to do the job from day 1. 

Dan looks like Fitts 2.0 to me and I'm not at all convinced Tepper has stepped back and stopped interfering. I'm disgruntled, but 3 decades of poo GMs will do that. 

36 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

It is. And it doesn't matter anymore because it's a sunk cost. We can't keep him around because of his draft cost, nor should we hold it against him, imo. Yes first round rookies get more leeway than others but he still has to earn it now.

It matters because we're still not done paying for him and we've spent a ridiculous amount of resources to build around him. Granted, the FO hasn't been good at making picks, but what we've spent on offense while ignoring defense isn't sustainable. At some point Bryce has to be able to elevate the guys around him and work with what he's got. 

I've made it no secret, I don't think he's a future franchise QB that takes this team to the SB. I think he gets you right on the cusp of playoff team, and maybe a weak division win or a WC, but serious deep runs aren't going to happen. I see him as the king of perpetual mediocrity. And in a couple of years we have to decide if we pay him like a franchise guy. We've paid lots of guys based on potential and it hasn't worked out well for us 

We'll see if he has "it" and can lead the offense. But I think it's going to get interesting when we have to stop focusing on giving Bryce all the tools and put resources into the defense so that we don't have 3rd string and PS guys as our starters. 

And as far as the Chiefs being 14-1, they've gotten more help from the refs this year than the Broncos in SB50. 

11 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

You just proved your point. You don't flip flop your mind is already made up on Bryce. It doesn't matter if he plays great you don't believe and never will.

 

Thanks for making that clear. Now I know to never take your opinion about Bryce seriously because your mind is already made up. Thank you for being honest I can respect that.

Bryce has to reach Lamar level to make me think that he's worth what we've spent because that's what we passed on to take him. 

21 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

If he doesn't elevate players around him, how they hell are we competing with SB contending teams like Chiefs/Eagles?

 

You can say you don't hate Bryce, but when you make false statements like that then you just don't know what you're talking about. Give this kid a true #1 WR and not some aging Thielen. Lets see him with a real deal WR.

It doesn't matter if you give him a new WR1. To do it you have to devoted MORE resources to him. At some point you have to stop or there's nothing left for the defense. Our defense looks like scrubs because that's what we've got because we've spent a shitload on offense. He got a 1st round WR and a shiny new RB in round 2. 

Bryce had a couple of good games but we are not competing against the Chiefs or Eagles. They're headed to the playoffs with realistic SB aspirations and we're headed to a top 10 pick. Those teams have competed for an entire season where the Panthers have ummm... They've almost gotten to as many wins as Matt Rhule in a season. 

Would you rather have Bryce or Lamar? Because we've spent more on Bryce and to build around him than what it would have cost to trade for Lamar. 

This team can't get better when it's having to devote everything to making it possible for our #1 QB god to play average NFL football. 

I may end up being wrong and Bryce may become the GOAT. But one thing you won't see me doing is flip flopping on where I stand every couple of weeks because he has good or bad games. I think Bryce is our version of Daniel Jones and I think we're going to fug ourselves pretending he's Pat Mahomes. 

9 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

He has improved a lot. You think I switched my opinion because he's just playing decent? Look at the games he's keeping us in man. These aren't some chump teams these are teams that will be SB contenders Chiefs/Eagles hell the Cardinals were in the playoff hunt. We loss to a bad Dallas team ok that's fair. Since the benching this kid has been a totally different QB. Also this roster is bad we shouldn't be in these games, but yet here we are.

 

Why are people against rooting for this kid? I wasn't a believer, but if someone show you massive improvement then give them some love. This board fuels off hate and I don't get it.

Massive improvement from the worst rookie season in NFL history. His first 2 games this season made Jimmy Pickles look like an all pro. We've spent more than it cost to trade for Lamar Jackson to get 5 whole wins. 

I'm not rooting against BY. I don't think he's the answer at QB because he doesn't elevate other players. We've had to dump almost all resources for 2 years to surround him to be this. We have to spend on defense at some point and that means not everything can go to prop up BY. 

Not every 1st and 2nd round pick can go to the offense. Not all our cap space can go to keeping offensive linemen. 

This was a game of who wanted to lose it more, just like the Giants. We beat a team that played really bad today. So am I going to be excited about winning a game that has no value? Not one tiny bit. 4-11. Wow.

We haven't even made it to Matt Rhule level of competition yet. He got fired for doing better than this. 

44 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

This is the mindset of a Panthers fan in 2024. 

 

Josh Allen has no SB appearance, neither does Lamar Jackson, Joe Burrow has no champuonship. These QB's you think are elite all have something in common as Bryce 0 championships.

 

Bless your little hateful heart. Hope the new year brings you positive vibes only.

This was your mindset 6 games ago. You criticizing anyone for thinking Bryce isn't the answer is comical. 

11 hours ago, NAS said:

He showed growth and progression for 5 straight games prior to last week.  I think next few games will  be telling, but I'm not sure what his ceiling may be.   All I'm saying is he did some really good things, showed that he can play against the blitz, carry the team on game tying or potential game winning drives... the jury is still out.  I wish he would have had Tank Dell, Nico Collins, Hunter Henry, Malik Nabers and other young receivers to be fairly evaluated.  

I was out on Bryce after week 2 because he looked like he was ruined, no confidence, scared of the pressure, not keeping his eyes downfield.  Even in the loss last week he didn't seem to revert back to that mindset despite the turnovers.  I think he needs at least one more weapon in addition to Coker hopefully being the next Puka Nacua.  

5 weeks? More like 3. He didn't do squat to win that game against the Giants. That was Chuba and the defense getting 2 key turnovers and Jones shitting the bed. The game winning drive in OT he handed the ball off. That's not progress. That's Jimmy Claussen. That game was who wanted to lose it more and Jones won. 

He looked better the next 3, and then he poo the bed all over again against Dallas. 3 fumbles is inexcusable. 

So far we've devoted 

3 1sts, 2 in trade plus XL

4 2nds, 2 in trade, Mingo, Brooks (plus 2 5ths)

Sanders and Zavala in the 4th

DJ Moore

Plus the most expensive offensive line in the league. 

Maybe he'd have more weapons if we hadn't had to pay a kings ransom to be better than one of the worst rookie QB seasons in history. 

13 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Weird how that happens when they change teams 

Probably has something to do with playing guard now too. He's a very big guy and handling edge rushers with speed was probably hard on his lower body.

7 minutes ago, Aussie Tank said:

Look at Beckton on the Eagles now 

Also the first time he's been relatively healthy since entering the league. 

When you look at what's been spent on BY and to build around him, it's ridiculous. 

Being middle of the pack is a damn embarrassment if he was even that good. 

We can't afford the 80m salary per year he'll want. 

55 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Umm yes!

 

Best player and best defensive player in the draft. Remember Charles Woodson who had a similar skill set coming out of Michigan?

 

That's the kind of talent Hunter is. If he just focused on defense he's gonna be a playmaker on that side of the ball. He's the type of player who will not only get you takeaways, but he will be a threat to score points after the INT. We need that kind of playmaker on this defense desperately. Don't overthink it if Hunter is available draft him.

He's already said he won't focus just on the defensive side of the ball. That could be a problem for a team if he's set on being a WR too. 

3 hours ago, Growl said:

so I was thinking about what this looked like before bed and nobody is going to care but I’m going to write it down anyways 

Plan here starts with picking up Ekwonu’s 5th year option at season’s end. 
 

You go into the draft, you draft the OT you like best.

From there you still wanna try and maximize value of the Ekwonu selection.  He starts the season at LT while the rookie is worked into the lineup. It gives you a last look at Ekwonu at LT and the rookie isn’t pressed into action at a spot that can be hazardous to a QB and an offense.
 

eventually the rookie slides in at LT, Ekwonu works as a 6th man on the line for the remainder of the season, in games but also primarily in practice where he works with the 1’s at RT. He’s being evaluated and the veteran Taylor Moton is given his vet days.

 

at season’s end, you decide how you feel about the collection of players you have. Is your rookie locked in at LT? Is Ekwonu a definite starter worthy of being handed the RT spot?

if so, you let Moton walk in free agency. It’s unfortunate because that guy deserves to be here when the team is good (they’re gonna be good, for sure this time) but he’ll catch on somewhere with a nice contract and nobody will lose any sleep.

Ekwonu gets his option season to prove he’s the guy at RT, which I think most people feel he’s suited for. A new contract is reached and you’ve got a pair of tackles you like.

 

——

 

yeah so anyways, ideally you still want a marquee defensive player out of this draft which renders the whole thing moot. But if the board falls a certain way I don’t think this is a bad approach if you love one of the OTs. 
 

 

 

The other thing to factor in will be BC's contract or lack thereof. Can Icky play swing T and guard. If so, he could become the new BC and be able to fill multiple positions on the line.

3 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Interesting how your answer was totally different in this thread than the Cam vs Allen thread.

 

Both Ray and Cam had more accomplishments yet you chose Allen and Kuechly who both had less accomplishments.

 

Notice how I ride for all Panthers players not just "particular" Panthers players.

 

 

Like I said Cam was never fully embraced by Panthers fans. 

You make some of the most ignorant statements I have ever seen by someone who claims to be a fan of sports. Every opinion you have is made as a Panthers homer. You can't separate being a fan from talking about actual football. The NFL and everyone in it does not revolve around the Carolina Panthers. It takes 53 men to win a SB, plus coaches and staff, it's not an individual sport even though there are individual accolades. 

I chose Allen because I think overall he is the better QB. It's not by much, but his passing ability is superior to Cam's and ultimately, the QB is a passing position. And I would chose Tom Brady over either one of them, because he's better than either one of them and has 7 SB rings to prove it. 

I chose Luke in today's league because he's a better pass coverage LB and with the rules skewed towards a passing league, I think Lewis's style of play would actually cause him to have difficulty from being able to play his type of football. If we're talking about 20 years ago and the way the league played, I'd take Lewis over Luke. The rules of the game have changed and so has the skillset. 

But according to how you ride, Jake Delhomme was a better QB than Peyton Manning. Being a Panthers player makes him immediately a better player. Nick Foles has a SB ring and SB MVP. He must be better than Cam because Cam never got those things. See how stupid that sounds? Or maybe you don't.

I think part of being a good coach is recognizing your key player strengths and maximizing them. Rhule cared about 1 thing. OOU. No QB really stood much of a chance with him as HC. 

Luke could break down a play so fast the offense never had a chance. 

Ray could hit a player so hard he never wanted to get back up. 

In today's personal foul league, it's gotta be Luke. 20 years ago, it was Lewis. 

Though I will say the thought of TD, Lewis and Luke on the field together... well that's the stuff dreams are made of. 

18 minutes ago, Gapanthersfan said:

I’m glad some people understand the point I’m trying to make. 

You sum it up perfectly. if he was that dude, then you back the brinks truck up in his driveway. But he’s not… And regardless of where you shift him on the line to better suit his ability, he has played LT for 3 years, and will rightfully want franchise LT money. There will be a team that will offer LT money that the Panthers just can’t responsibly match. 

That's why I'm a firm believer that you draft IOL and you pay tackles. Starting caliber IOL are routinely found in rounds 2-4 and having them on a cheaper rookie salary gives you the flexibility to pay those premium edge spots that are much harder to find. At least 2 picks every draft should be devoted to the line between offense and defense line since roughly 20% of the team is devoted to those positions. 

3 hours ago, SCO96 said:

We switched to the 3-4 at the start of the 2019 season. I remember reading an article on the web...possibly even from this site...stating that this was what Tepper wanted and Rivera obliged him. We've hired 3 head coaches since then and none of them has even hinted at moving back to a 4-3. I can't help but think that our owner still wants to run a 3-4, but I could be wrong. I wish someone could bring this up at a postseason conference and gauge the attitude to such a question/suggestion.

From what I remember, Ron had hinted at going to the 3-4 but we didn't have the players to do it. Typically a change like that will take at least 2 years, sometimes 3, to get all the right guys in. Ron was on the hot seat already when that change was made and fired after 12 games in 2019. For a coach with his job on the line and less than a year to prove he's worth keeping, it makes no sense at all to implement a defensive change like that when you don't have the personnel to run it and no realistic way to get them. 

2 minutes ago, Move the Panthers to Raleigh said:

He gets at least one more year. We’re not gonna pick early enough for Sanders or Ward. And fug picking up some journeyman QB. We did that for 3 years before Bryce. Let him develop 

We need a journeyman QB. Dalton's contract is up and at this point, I'd consider him a journeyman so whether it's Dalton or somebody else, we need one. We also need a 3rd QB regardless of whether Bryce is the starter or not. Our QB room is ass and we need to be looking to improve that situation. 

2 minutes ago, BEASTfromdaEAST said:

Love the arm chair GMs saying for years on here Ikey would be better inside. Based on what exactly? His laterally mobility? Lolol 

My point is pay talent and he is talented. People here didn't like Moton getting paid and talked about trading him when that went down and look how that turned out.

He has consistently had problems moving side to side on the edge and handling speed. His bread and butter coming out of college was his run blocking and power. Inside he'd have to deal with less speed trying to get around him and more power and size which play to his strengths better. Blocking a 260 lb edge rusher with speed is different than trying to block a 310lb DT who relies more on power. One tries to go around and the other has to fight through. 

Brian Burns is talented but he isn't worth what the Giants paid him. It all depends on the contract demands. If this franchise gives Icky top 3 LT money, it deserves another 5 3 win seasons. 

2 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

This fanbase never embraced Cam.

 

Usually these topics are dominated by the teams board. Not here people will openly not root for Cam.

 

I keep trying to look back on Cam's career and find something that really turned the fanbase off. The only thing I can think about was him getting in a car accident and playing a few weeks later. This guy put his body on the line with not much help on offense. The only MVP in franchise history and people can't even defend him vs other QB's smh.

 

Do better Panthers fans.

WTF are you even talking about? This fanbase loved Cam. 

Cam is not on the team anymore so I don't know how the fanbase could openly root for Cam.

If you asked anybody if they would take prime Brady over prime Cam, you and a couple others might be the only ones that would take Cam. Most NFL guys would take Allen over Cam. I can be a Panthers fan and not think that Cam is the greatest QB to ever play in the NFL. 

37 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Why is this even a topic?

 

This like me going to the Bills board and asking who is the better QB Cam or Allen.

 

This a Panthers board rock with your guy until the wheels fall off. Cam has a MVP and a SB appearance. Stop this nonsense!

The wheels did fall off. 

It's something to talk about other than why we're 3-11 and enduring our 7th losing season in a row under Tepper. 

It's possible to talk football without being completely homer skewed in your opinions. Allen is a better passer than Cam and Cam is/was a better pure runner. I'd give up what we gave up to get BY in a heartbeat for either.