SmokinwithWilly

I get what you're saying. I was just pointing out stats can be deceiving and you need to actually look at the game to get the entire picture. Still don't want him as my starting QB though.

Yeah. With that salary cap hit you knew it was coming. Hell, they didn't even give him a playbook until Lance got hurt.

Not a defense of Darnold at all, but stats are deceiving. T2G has a higher career completion % than Cam. Which one is the better QB? You have to look at the whole body of work. His decision making got better at the end of the year. He did what he was asked to do. Do I want him as my starting QB? Nope.

It's easy to say gamble when it's not your career on the line. That's why we have to evaluate so thoroughly. If they do all that evaluation and feel one of these guys is head and shoulders above the rest and is worth it, then by all means go for it. If there's 3 that they feel are all about the same, you have to reevaluate that willingness to trade to 1. If Fitts trades up and this QB busts, he's likely out of a job. I'm sure that's playing back there in his mind somewhere in all of this. I really want to develop our own QB. But if there's anything all these trade up for top QBs has taught us, it's that it's not about getting the first one, it's about getting the right one. For the first time, I actually have confidence we can draft AND develop a QB.

Hurney gave him the extension in 2019

Get that exercise bike ready.

It's a move for a win it all now team. With Rodgers it's possible he could get them into that conversation quickly, but the AFC is not going to be easy to get through at all.

That was kind of my thought too. He's done some things that to a casual fan scream he's an ass.

Not really that shocking. That cap hit and the whole situation in Green Bay has got to leave some people wondering what the hell is going on there.

Some here might see that as a personal challenge

I don't know what to make of Fitts. This draft and off season will tell me a lot about him as a GM. Scuttlebutt is Rhule was a yapping chihuahua that wouldn't leave anyone alone until he got what he wanted.

It all depends on what we have to give up to get him and our ability to build around him if we do. The downside is if we do make an offer he'll accept, it has to be bigger than what Baltimore is willing to pay or they just say thanks for doing the work for us. I'd guess that will be a full guaranteed contract or damn close to it. Lamar is a franchise QB but the Ravens are willing to let him walk. That doesn't happen without reason. It's our FO job to figure out that reason, calculate the risk, and determine if the reward is worth it. That's all it really comes down to.

I can debate your facts because the facts you've presented are your opinion. Baltimore has been mean to his mom. Who fuging cares. Hire an agent. Baltimore is cheap. Baltimore is taking advantage of an inexperienced business man and taking him to the cleaners. There was a solutin to that. Hire an agent. He's won 75% of the games he's played in. He didn't do that by himself. It takes a team effort. Take away that team and Lamar doesn't win anything. It takes an offensive line, receivers, RBs, defense, coaches and coordinators. He isn't doing all of this in a vacuum. He may play the most important position on the field but he doesn't do it by himself. And if you think people have only been arguing his contract and his injury history you haven't been paying attention. They wanted 3 1sts , plus contract, plus injury history. His play and production have also been question with reason. It's declined since his MVP season. It's perfectly logical and good business to question and evaluate why. How much do you think it costs to just offer him a contract? 100-250k. There's time and resources you don't just get back. If they feel Baltimore is just going to match it, why do the work for them? Take that effort and time and put it to use making the whole team better. There's more to team building and running a franchise than just spending all your resources on a player. You have to be able to put that player in a position to succeed and if you can't do that, you're wasting everyone else's time. You see this from a fan's perspective. I'm looking at it as a business. That's why we don't agree.

There's really been no debate. All you've said is Baltimore is cheap, mean to his mom, and pay them whatever they want just to get him here. You've constantly said he's won 75% of his games without acknowledging it's actually a team sport and he in fact has won nothing by himself. You also haven't accepted he's in this position because he's made some very poor business decisions his entire career regarding hiring an agent from day 1. I actually have zero issue with Lamar other than the cost and possible injury history. It's going to be 200-225m guaranteed of 250m plus and the picks. My biggest concern is being able to build around him. He can do a lot but he cannot win games by himself. Right now, our offense is virtually identical to Baltimore. 1 receiving threat and a bunch of no names. It's not even known if he would fit into the offensive scheme we want to run or our team building plan. Our defense is transitioning to a 3-4 which will take some personnel adjustments to accomplish. In order to build a consistent contender you need high end talent on rookie contracts and enough cap room to sign other players to build an offense and a defense. I want no part of Rodgers. One of the best WRs in the league flat out said he'd rather go play with Carr, who you wanted no part of, than play with him. His franchise is ready to see him go and are done with him. You don't toss away elite QBs for no reason. His 60m a year salary, plus picks, plus he may retire at any point. Nah man, I'm good without that.

I don't even care if it's one of the top 4. I just want it to be the right one. If they think Hooker is that guy, McKee, or Tune, I genuinely don't care. Just get it right, install an offense that wasn't developed by stealing a high school play book, and fuging win.

We're not trolling you. We've tried to discuss that there's things at play other than just pay LJ that are involved other than just pay him whatever you feel he's worth and hand over a bunch of draft picks. You don't want to hear any of it.

So would I. I can only dream of what it would have been like having Cam under an Andy Reid.

It wasn't a shot at Cam. He did everything he could. Hurney and Rivera were the majority of the reason we ended up where we did. Gman too.

QB play holds most teams back. We were losers with Cam. 3 winning seasons in 9 years. Coaches and Hurney held this team back for a lot longer than Tepper has been owner. He put his faith in the wrong guy with Rhule. Hurney is the perfect example of how not to build a team around your franchise QB. Hopefully he has learned and the braintrust in our coach's room and FO can put together getting us a franchise QB and still be able to build around him.

But if he had hired an agent, would he be going after that contract now, or would it have already been in place? With an MVP season under his belt, I don't think an agent lets him walk into year 4 without a shiny new extension in place. His first real contract wasn't coming up, it's already 2 years past.

He's always had the choice to play professional football. Part of choosing a career is knowing the freedoms and limitations of that choice. He could chose to play within the confines of a NFL contract or try and negotiate a better one. It's always been his choice.

Rhule wanted T2G, Darnold and Mayfield. PJ was here because of his connection to him. I don't care about being called losers for not going after Lamar yet if at ever. It's funny the media isn't calling him out on never hiring an agent and helping put himself in the position he's in. But then again, that doesn't make for a good victim story that gets lots of clicks.

100%. He negotiated his own contract from day 1.

"alternative athletic facility"

I guess it all depends on if he sat out for contract reasons or if he was legitimately worried about not being completely healed. Only he knows that. I think part of why it doesn't look good for him though is you have guys like Purdy who's arm was hanging by a thread, and he played. A career is a career. I'm sure Purdy's is just as valuable to him as Lamar's. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but appearances can do a boatload of damage whether true or not. I really hopes he wises up and hires an agent soon, for no other reason than to navigate everything outside of the contract talks.