SmokinwithWilly

At this point I trust a Huddle vote more than Tepper.

Most defensive coaches are conservative by nature. The NFL is changing rules to open things up offensively even more. It makes sense to look for an offensive minded guy that's young, creative and willing to take risks. It's where the NFL is headed and we should go with that trend instead of spending another 5 years playing it safe.

Well 2 of those teams are in our division and have/had 2 hated QBs. One is one of the most narcissistic whiners in the NFL and the other wears braided belts. Hate is warranted.

Depends on the guarantee amount. Fully guaranteed, yes.

I think Luvu may go a little higher since he's been balling out more than anyone else. He may not always show it in the stats, but his effort is undeniable. I think he gets 8.5 to 9.5 per for 3. Burns contract sounds about right, but guaranteed will be in the 90-100 range which is 18-20 per year for the 5 no matter if he blows his knee out the day after he signs. I hate big guarantees.

Reddick, Luvu, Burns in that order. Big contract for a team rebuilding.

Exactly. You have to weigh Burns at a cost of 30m per year(estimated) for 4 or 5 years, 2-3 of which will be spent during rebuild Or Pick 36 atm, 24 1st and 25 1st from a declining team and 30m per season to add an edge rusher and other positions depending on cap spent on said edge rusher. It's just personal opinion of which is more valuable overall. Personally, I think the team benefits more from the latter. No hate towards Burns at all.

You pay contracts like Burns is going to get when you're close and need just one or 2 more pieces to get you over the hump. When you're rebuilding, which we are, draft picks and salary matter more because you have so many needs. When you need a HC, OC, DC, DT, DE, LB WR TE S C RB, T and let's not forget QB, over the next 2 years at least, 30m and 3 picks will do a lot to fill those holes. Maybe it works out, maybe not. Just for thought, if Philly offered us NO 1st this year, Philly 2nd this year and a future 1st, should we consider it?

TE should be the easiest to address without overpaying. Anyone worth their salt from the other positions we're going to drastically overpay for.

Tremble was such a strange pick because he wasn't a pass catching QB coming out of college but he never had really been asked to be. I was always hoping we'd be able to develop him and so many other players but we never did any of that under Rhule. I still have no clue if he could be developed or not. Rhule fugged this team in every way imaginable.

They're not winning with any consistency or beating any good teams and one more win may be enough to "win" the division at 6-11. That's not the definition of winning IMO. I think they could win 1, maybe 2 against bad teams and get in. I'm not worried about them being embarrassed. I think if they somehow make it to Philly or SF, they're going to get absolutely blown out and that moral victory of getting a playoff game or even winning one is going to come crashing back to reality and the team will be in a worse position to fix the issues. I also believe that getting to or winning a playoff game will cause us to keep Wilks and I don't think that's the right move either. We've done defensive coaches for 27 years and there's no sustained success. This team needs to move in line with the offensive pattern the league is embracing. My genuine concern is Tepper will see division title and ignore the record. I'm also concerned he'll believe Wilks worked wonders with this team and ignore the actual teams they played. In any other year, this team would already be out of the playoff conversation and we would be facing the reality that we don't have any answers at QB, our OC is abysmal, and this team needs to find an identity. I want the team to win. Unless this team makes the SB, I think the overall net gain from the experience of a 1 and done playoff run would hurt the team long term. It's a weird position to be in. I want the team to win the division, but this doesn't feel like winning to me. It just feels like masking the issues.

There's not a long list of busts in the past 5 years that massively overshadows those that have succeeded. 10 years wont see a ratio like that either. That wasnt my argument, that was yours. It wasnt a good one. Too many factors go into the success of a QB other than whether or not they're a generational talent. If a new coach, OC and Fitts or whoever is GM decide that there is a QB worthy of trading to acquire, then they should go for it. They should also be held accountable for that decision once it plays out. If at that time, they bust on a trade for a QB, then it's time to decide if they need to stay or go. But saying someone should be fired for making a trade before that player even has a chance to play a down makes no sense. And you're not going to get a good HC by telling then they're stuck with Darnold, PJ and MC or whoever we manage to sign and can't make a trade to get a QB if they see one they like. If we don't have the right evaluators and coaches in place before we draft it won't matter.

Of course the goal is to win the Division and win the SB. If you asked a player if finishing 6-11 or 7-10 and 1st in the division is "winning" it, I highly doubt they would say yes. I also look at the way this team has played and who they are going to have to play to make a Super Bowl run and I don't see it happening. Currently the odds are +40000 for this team to win. Vegas is right more often than fans are. Maybe the Panthers defy the odds, but we both know that's not likely to happen. Enjoy the ride if you want to. That's your prerogative. I want this team to have consistent success. If it takes losing to accomplish that, I'm OK with it.

Do you call what the Panthers are doing "winning the division"? I sure as hell don't. The goal is to win games which we are not doing. We can't even beat the teams we should. We are not on our way to winning a SB. We are going to get embarrassed and hurt our future in the process. You can say we're on track to accomplish the goal of winning the division and winning a Super Bowl, but are we really? From everything I'm seeing, the answer is a resounding no.

Please post the 396 QBs taken in the last 5 years of the draft are the rule that make up that 99%. I gave 4 that are the exceptions. It should be easy for you to list off the almost 400. I'll wait.

Because winning the division with a losing record in a terrible division isn't winning anything. That's like saying you won the race because you slid the farthest when everyone crashed. The only win vs a winning team is the Seahawks who are now at .500 and boast one of the NFLs worst defenses. What teams do you seriously think the Panthers beat to get to the NFCCG and the SB. Current odds are +40000 for the Panthers for a SB win. Good time to go put down a bet to win it all if you're that confident they won't get curb Stomped in the playoffs.

Winning this division isn't an accomplishment. Being the first team to go to the playoffs twice with a losing record isnt something to brag about. And we aren't going to the Super Bowl. We couldn't beat turnover machine Mitch Trubisky at home. They didn't even bother to show up for the most important game this season to date. You think this defense is shutting down Philly, Buffalo or KC? Getting curb stomped at home following a 6-11 season is nothing to get excited about. Moral victories don't fuging matter.

Maybe the fans will show up when the team does.

You're missing the point. I'm not saying getting it right is easy. You're saying there's no QB worthy of giving up picks in this draft class. That's not a certainty any more than trading 3 1sts will net you a franchise QB. Being able to identify talent, determine if he will fit into the system you are building/built, and acquiring that talent are key factors. I gave 4 examples of guys who weren't considered generational QBs coming out of college, but now are considered franchise cornerstones in the last 5 years. Every one of those guys would be the 1st pick of a draft and a GM would be congratulated for getting one for 3 1sts. 3 or 4 years from now you'll be able to say there were or were not any generational talents at QB in this draft. Right now, it's too early to make that call and it's just stupid to say that you know how good their careers will be before they play one snap in the NFL.

How about Lamar Jackson or Jalen Hurts? It doesn't matter if there is a generational talent at QB. Picks are irrelevant if you get it right. If you give up 3 1sts and get your QB for the next 15, you win. To say you should fire a guy because he trades up because you don't think there is a "generational talent" is asinine.

There doesn't have to be a generational guy to trade up. Those are very rare. It's about finding a QB who can be developed and turned into an above average QB because that's about the best you can realistically expect. If we traded 3 1sts and ended up with the next Allen or Mahomes, should he be fired because neither of those were considered generational talents. The right system, the right coach, the right offense make such a huge difference it's not on the QB alone.

Darnold could be a functional backup. But it would take an OC that is actually capable of game planning to what he can do. He's not someone I would want starting every game, but having him for an occasional fill in, why not for the right money. Am I saying I don't want better? Absolutely not. As a QB 2/3 going into camp with a new HC and creative OC, I'd be ok with it and let the chips fall where they may.

I'm not so sure how else to see it other than he's blindly hitting every button. Keeping floundering Hurney 2.0 to lead new coach selection Hiring a college coach to a massive contract that never beat a ranked opponent Letting said college coach bring an almost entirely college staff to run the team Giving zero NFL experience coach GM level control - 5 QBs in 3 years not even factoring in the cost Keeping college coach after year 2 of abject miserable failure Taking away the franchise and fan base mantra Keep Pounding only to replace it with "The Brand". Installing college mentality to professional football. Stadium debacle Panthers HQ debacle I don't know how you can look at were we are as a franchise right now and say a monkey pushing buttons couldn't have accomplished the same or more.

And then there's the 3rd group that sees pretty clearly we're making the same mistakes over and over again, and are frustrated beyond words that other people just don't see it. The biggest problems with this team have been owner, GM and HC. If you haven't been able to put together back to back winning seasons in almost 30 years, it's time to change. The 80s Bears defense is gone in the NFL. The NFL caters to high powered offense because it's more exciting. More excitement means more revenue from fans, advertising, fantasy football, and gambling. This franchise needs to pull its head out of its ass and storm into the new NFL. If it doesn't, it's going to be a long fuging time before we see any meaningful football played in Carolina.

Of course he did. He was hired to help Matt Rhule with his vision. But do you honestly think after last season that he thought keeping Rhule was the right move because I damn sure don't. Anyone with any football acumen at all knew Rhule's brand was all BS. Tepper is Fitts boss and he did what he was told to do just like every other person on the Huddle would have when the big boss tells you to. Tepper is the problem. Fitts could very well be too, but until he's allowed to actually do his job without the interference of a guy that has clearly shown he knows squat about running a football team, we won't really know. Blame Fitts all you want, but the real problem is the guy that kept Marty Hurney, hired Matt Rhule and an entire college staff to run an NFL team and personel decisions, piss of an entire fan base to create "the brand", and keep Rhule an entire offseason when even the lowliest of fans knew it was a colossal mistake. Tepper has made it clear he's going to be significantly involved in deciding who the next leader of this team is. But hey, if David Tepper was paying you millions of dollars you'd tell him to fug off because you're not a yes man.