SmokinwithWilly

We're talking multi level contracts here which I do understand and I think we're actually looking at things the same but possibly from different perspectives and using different terms. There are different ways to guarantee money whether it's through a signing bonus, penalty clause, etc. Like you said in your example, it's an $80M guarantee instead of a 40 all in how it's worded because no team would eat that type of hit after 1 bad season. Burns may be looking for a 100m guaranteed no matter how it's worded. Agents and teams manipulate these numbers through the terms. In the end, no matter what happens, through the terms of the contract, he's "guaranteed" to make at least 100m. That's what I mean by the guaranteed number is the only one that matters. Everything else can be twisted, contorted, reworked, restructured, whatever. His contract is still worded so he's "guaranteed" to earn 100m at a minimum, no matter what.

I get what you're saying but I was trying to simplify it because NFL contracts are such a complex thing. Guarantees are what matters however they're structured.

We're not upset at Burns. This is about contracts and value as a commodity, and like it or not, that's what he is. He wants to get his and that's fine. The thing most people are pissed about is how this was handled by the front office. By rejecting the trade, we said we valued him at higher than 2 1sts and a 2nd, then tried to pay him like a player we valued less than that. All of this was discussed at the time of the offer. And if we as fans know it, you know they did too.

Pretty much. How's he handled this is a crash course in what not to do.

Guaranteed money is always the hang up in these contracts because it's the only number that really matters. He could sign a $750m 5 year contract with 0 guaranteed, shred his knee game 1 and get cut the next day with zero penalties. If he's got 100m guaranteed, he gets 100m no matter what. That's why that's always the sticking point.

Makes sense as a move because there was no way for him to learn the offense that fast.

Or maybe we recognize that when you put a Ferrari in the slow lane on cruise control doing 55 you're wasting the damn car. His rookie year, he looked like the best defensive player in the draft, then Rhule moved him and his play suffered dramatically so he kept him there. Hopefully this staff can get him back to doing what he did then, because if not, we're wasting his damn talent.

Quite possible. His rookie year he should have been DROY easily. He was everything Simmons was supposed to be, until our own coaches found a way to neutralize him.

While true, he's not the one that stood on a podium and said Burns is a big part of our future plans and he will be here in 2023. Fitts publicly announced to the world that we were going to do anything to sign him. While we all knew it, saying it to the rest of the NFL and the world wasn't the smartest thing to do.

Not the trade up necessarily more so the panic behind the Corral and Johnson trades. Both weren't done necessarily because of the quality of the player but rather there had been a run on the position and he thought we were going to get left with nothing. Corral has already been cut and we've yet to see what DJ brings.

Stats are irrelevant. Feelings are all that matters.

My confidence in Fitts is gone. There have been 2 major blunders already this off-season. 1. Panicking and trading up for DJ Johnson. Regardless of if he works out or not, its the second panic pick in as many years. 2. The whole Burns disaster. Completely foreseeable and avoidable no matter which side of the trade you're on. I don't want any more.

Lions offense put up 6500 yards last season behind only the Chiefs and Eagles and 5th in scoring. That is a high power offense and they retained their OC who was being sought out for a HC job by multiple teams including the Panthers. Best 2022 AFC offense vs 3rd ranked NFC offense. Pretty much the definition of 2 high Octane offenses.

Their offense is good. It's the opening of fantasy football as well. High octane, high scoring offenses draw viewers. Made total sense to have this as a season opener.

If they're asking for well beyond their production, absolutely. Like I said, this isn't about Burns getting paid. He deserves to get paid as a high level pass rush specialist. He is not a complete defensive player at this point in his career. That's not talking bad about him or calling him a crap player. He's very good against the pass and below average against the run. In 4 years he's never taken over a game defensively. Elite players do that. Paying him a Bosa size contract is stupid because he's not a Bosa caliber player. Like I said, I'm not pissed at Burns. I'm pissed at Fitts for how badly he's handled this. Every bit of this was predictable. If we're going to rebuild, rebuild. Don't do this half ass pretend we're a QB away from being a contender BS.

At this point we are in a rebuild mode. New QB, unproven WRs, a lot of new young players on offense and defense. Also, with those extra picks we may not have had to trade DJ. With the 2nd this year there were a couple of good DE prospects we could have grabbed. Yeah we would have missed Burns, but we would actually be able to build around our rookie QB. You also need to remember that BY isn't a sure thing either. You're acting like he's a guaranteed HoF and he hasn't taken a single game snap yet. We need to sign Burns but we don't need to break the bank to do it. We still need to re sign Chinn, Brown, Luvu. There's only so much to go around. I'm good with Burns at 26-28 with 80 guaranteed. He's not Bosa and doesn't deserve that level of a contract. Fitts fuged all this up with how he handled the trade offer and the pressers following. I don't blame Burns for wanting to get his. But if we're going to build a perennial winner we can't have 4-5 elite salaried players and a whole bunch of JAGs because that's all we can afford.

Pretty soon they're just going to offer 20% of the team instead of these contracts.

Have to remember to that so many of these contracts are spread out over years because of the salary caps and bonuses and how they are applied. Most are never meant to be 4 to 5 years in length. The only real number for most of these is the guaranteed money.

Because for the money he's asking, he should be more than just a pass rush specialist. He's Hassan Reddick at a much higher price.

Just letting you know you misspoke on your vid.

38 sacks in the past 4 seasons ranks 9th in the past 3 seasons. Might want to fix that.

31 teams kill to have Burns. Yes. 31 teams pay him 30m a year, for a below average run defender, hoping he'll take over a game defensively, and maybe 15 sacks. Nope

At some point these contracts are going to end just like the ones did for rookies. It's not feasible to pay less than 20% of your players 80+% of your salary cap and expect to be a perennial playoff contender.

Those would be Absinthe Boone's Farm Crown Royal And 151.

A team trying to trade sets the value. The Panthers value Burns more than 2 1sts and a 2nd. That's an all pro/DPOY type value at a high value position.That's elite level pay grade. That's the value the Panthers set when they refused the offer. If a team had only offered a 3rd and 5th for Burns, that offer doesn't really show a huge desire to acquire that player. Burns wouldn't be able to legitimately demand a Bosa type contract and not get laughed out of the room if that had been the offer the Panthers turned down. Every year players demand contracts for what they think they're worth and every year we see players sign for less than their own perceived value or are out of the league completely. Look no further than Nuke, Jacobs and Dalvin Cook this year. All signed for less than what they were asking for because the league dictated they weren't worth what they thought.