†William Moore†

​And facts say he barely fell off at all. You love your superlatives.

Again...his line has been trash for the past two years and his numbers have barely faulted. Do you have anything to back your statement up?

6 seconds left? nope

​This is a lie and you know it. Ask Hakari Nakamura. Cam will never do something like this. Puts the towel on his head too quick. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MmJRVcFrDmE Look at that throw and the hit he takes doing it. What a beast. And that's only his rookie year.

​If 4500 yards, 26 TDs, and 67% is middle of the pack Cam must be bottom tier in the league.

Did that roster make him or did he make that roster? Could a guy like Richard Sherman succeed anywhere where he isn't a zone corner with excellently schemed help all around him (he's terrible in man)? Would Bobby Wagner be a a SB MVP type player anywhere else?

He's been hit 531 times in his career. Does;t mean Ryan doesn't take hits. Serious question: Looking at your join date and posts in this thread, are you a Cam fan or Panthers fan?

​Enter Dan Quinn

​He's at the top of the NFL in comeback wins..."he gives up". Again, you really believe that? Or have anything to back up your assumption? I notice you completely avoided when I pointed that out on RC.net too.

He's getting smashed pretty much every play and still goes for 4,000 yards and 25+ TDs "not tough" Panthers fans. Really. You believe that?

​He's been one of the most sacked QBs in the entire league the past two years and you're telling me he can't take hits...lmao He's still putting up good numbers while doing so my man. Just stop it.

​4,719 yards, 32 TDs, 14 INTs on 68% comp. is pretty damn good. That was his 2012 season. And lol @ garbage time. Ryan was the only reason we were in any games these last two years. He's been dragging this corpus of a team on his back.

​That doesn't work because Ryan was without White and Jones pretty much all of 2013 and still put up the same numbers. Ryan's offensive line has also been terrible, and he had no running game foR three years. His defense is also completely trash while Cam's keeps getting better. 'Never been in Cam's shoes' yeah, he's recently had it much worse.

​Fair enough. But I still don't see him as a great passer. Wasn't there some article a few weeks ago that showed him having the most overthrows in the league or something to that effect?

​Understandable. But why shell out all that money for who has apparently been turned into a game manager? Unless his running is just that important? Hell Alex Smith is an excellent runner. You wanna put him on that level? I won't.

​Did you watch our games last year? His mobility in the pocket was better than ever. He looked like he could make it as a running QB in spots. His athleticism was majorly improved;hence more rollouts and bootlegs.

If Cam is such a great passer why doesn't he get more attempts?

​If it's not progression it's mediocrity then right?

​Ryan's passing TDs went up every year as did his yards. Cam's numbers have only either went down or stayed in the same area, even his rushing yards.

​You really gonna sit here and tell me he's not an inconsistent passer?

​When you're not a good passer, you're not gonna be throwing the ball that much in an NFL offense.

​Lol where did I say he wasn't in the conversation. I think Cam is up there in the 10-15 realm, but Ryan is arguably a fringe top 10 guy. They're close, but no doubt in my mind based on the winning, numbers, and eye test that Ryan is better. I'm not saying Cam is a terrible QB. He has all the tools to be great. Something just isn't clicking, Even with that first 4 years argument, Ryan clearly got better while Cam is not. He can put up all the numbers he wants, but he hasn't shown progression like Ryan did. And you're post contradicts itself with the whole TD thing. "You can put up a ton of yardage, but if you only have 1 playoff win in 7 years who really gives a poo?" How about: "You can up a bunch of TDs, but if you're only averaging 8 wins per season, who really gives a poo?"

​Cam was barely 51 yards over in any case and hasn't been able to repeat it.

It boggles my mind how a guy like LeBron can literally get to the rim and get either a free throw, shot for himself, or shot for someone else every time he drives, yet settles for fadeaways all the time. That was a stupid shot to take. 5.7 seconds is more than enough time to muscle Iggy out the way, collapse the defense and finish. Even if he gets penta-teamed and misses a layup, nobody can question his decision. But taking a fadeaway three? That was more about him trying to be flashy than trying to win the game, imo.

"Ryan completes 64 percent of his passes; Newton 59.5 percent. Ryan has thrown for more than 4,000 yards in four consecutive seasons; Newton has done that once, his rookie year in 2011. Ryan's touchdown to interception ratio is 2.3; Newton's is 2.8. Ryan has thrown 22 or more touchdowns in six consecutive seasons; Newton has surpassed 21 once, throwing 24 in 2013. Ryan makes better overall decisions. He's a better pocket passer. He's got a better record (64-44 to 30-31-1). He's had four seasons of 10-plus wins; Newton has one." http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/13990 You can use that 'first four years' argument all day, fact is it's flawed because players have a tendency to do this thing called "getting better" Ryan went from being a game manager to a legit NFL QB over the course of his career. As of right now, he is without a doubt better than Cam Newton. He probably still will be in a few years as well, if you wanna make that argument. Looking at Cam's yardage numbers go down every year and his TDs and INTs fluctuate randomly. I'll even include his rushing stats because they go down as well (even though they're not a QB stat) 2011- 4,051 passing yards, 21 TDs, 17 INTs 706 rushing yards, 14 TDs 2012- 3,869 passing yards, 19 TDs, 12 INTs 741 rushing yards, 8 TDs 2013- 3,379 passing yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs 585 rushing yards, 6 TDs 2014- 3,127 passing yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTs 539 rushing yards, 5 TDs Now the obvious rebuttal is: " well if Ryan can get better why can't Cam??" Here's the thing about that: If you want base your arguments in numbers (like you have) Ryan's went up in almost every category the first four years he was in the league. You can see his progression. The only thing that stands out is his passing yards went down from 2008-2009. However, looking at the years following compared with his first year, it's an obvious aberration. Cam's have only regressed or stayed around the same exact clip. There's nothing that's an outlier with his stats. Here's Ryan: 2008- 3,440 passing yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs 2009- 2,916 passing yards, 22 TDs, 14 INTs 2010- 3,705 passing yards, 28 TDs, 9 INTs 2011- 4,117 passing yards, 29 TDs, 12 INTs It's funny, because Cam's first four years put in a vacuum and compared to others make him look great. But when you actually take a look at them, he's going down and inconsistency is really the only thing he's been consistent at. So in reality...Ryan is better now, and will probably still be better in three years. Why? He is consistent and Cam shows sign of being that or getting any better. So I pose a question Panthers fans, and I want serious discussion: What makes you think Cam will get any better? The numbers say he probably won't, the eye test shows he wasn't really 'himself' last year, and he just got a big contract. Is there any reason besides homerism to think he's going to turn it around all of a sudden?