CPantherKing

Sounds like Baker Mayfield coming out of college and going #1 to the Browns. He is a typical overrated Ohio St QB who gets carried by coaches, OL, receivers, running game, and defense. He struggles under pressure and when he is in a situation where he has to carry the team he gets frustrated and struggles to show he can produce game winning drives. He is not a playoff/championship QB for the NFL level. He will be a game manager for a bad team who needs a QB who can win close games at the end of the 4th quarter - they will wish they never drafted Stroud. The top college QBs are not groomed to be successful in the NFL. The better QBs coming out of college for the NFL game are the ones that perform well on a bad team and can consistently carry their team to wins. If they are a QB for an undefeated top program, they are not tested enough to even consider making them an NFL franchise QB.

Wilks is allowing the correct decisions to be made. Players who actually give the Panthers the best chance to win are being played now. There seems to be an NFL level game plan in place. The coaching understands how to play the chess match with play calling now. Wish CMC was behind the Bozeman led OL and allowed to play with patience behind the LoS. I think Wilks is capable of leading a playoff team and should be given the chance to prove if he can build a championship team. If he can lead this team to the playoffs after all the mess he has been handed, he deserves a few seasons as HC. Or... DC if he can lure Byron Leftwich to be the HC and he mentors Leftwich. The defense is playing more like an NFL defense and Wilks is game planning to cover the weaknesses players like Burns and Brown have had against the run by covering them up with a run defender. Rhule and Snow just let teams keep picking at those run defense weaknesses from Brown and Burns. It's worth seeing how far Wilks can push this team and its foundation. Panthers still need a better front office and scouting department. This Browns, Jets, and Lions level scouting isn't going to cut it.

Trading Sam Darnold for Pizza Logs (aka deep fried pizza, aka pizza egg rolls)? Best trade made by Fitterrer! ... and Dan Morgan has always struggled to run a business. This place gave him so much poo about the failed pizza business.

Corrected

and then CMC picks up the playbook and the 49ers become the best in the NFC West Geno and a Rams team in need of a CMC or OBJ are not going to keep a CMC focused 49ers team from taking that division

I got poo'd for that too. There are 2 QBs that are the best in the 2021 class and they are still on the street I believe. They are better than PJ and anything the Panthers thought they had in Baker and Darnold. I like many more of these low round and undrafted QBs than the 1st round QBs being passed around in the NFL like they can be something they were not in their first 3 seasons. Buechele, Rypien, Rush, Walker, Ehlinger...

It wasn't roll outs. There was only one designed roll out that PJ passed the ball after he broke the pocket. The other roll out PJ threw while he was still in the pocket. A receiver didn't run the correct route and PJ scrambled outside the pocket one time to throw the ball out of bounds. PJs success came inside the pocket off of 3 step drops and screens. His 2 TDs were delivered from inside the pocket with good footwork and timing. He stepped up into the pocket when receivers needed more time to develop the route. PJ has better footwork than Darnold or Baker. He had many 3 step drops and hitched up into the passing lane. He held to his hitches and lanes even when he got pressured, hit, and leveled. Baker and Darnold would pull the ball down, take the sack, and try to escape. I'm sure not having Elf to step up in the pocket helped a lot. I remember way too many times Baker stepped up in the pocket only to have Elf or Elf's defender in his face. Bozeman, Christensen and Corbett gave PJ the room he needed to be patient and trust his footwork.

A good QB is not hard to find. SEVERAL good QBs are one good coach away You want a good QB? Then find a good coach. Bill Walsh knew how to spot them and understood how to develop them quickly. Andy Reid, Mike Holmgren, Sean Payton, Joe Gibbs, the Harbaughs, and McVay to start with a few will never have trouble finding a QB. You only need a QB with average athletic instinct and average intellect/intuition to form an NFL great. Walsh developed Ken Anderson, Dan Fouts, Joe Montana, and Steve Young. All done in a single season of preparation for them. 3 of them converged in a single conference championship weekend. The preparation by Walsh took years to spot these QBs in a single afternoon and develop the QB and a system for them in 1 season. Spotting an NFL championsip QB is not hard at all if you learn how to do it. I see too many make the mistake of running with the top college QBs thinking it is easier to take a top college QB and coach them up for the NFL. I wanted Brian Griese and Tom Brady coming out of Michigan as franchise starters. Outside of a miracle to get Peyton Manning in 1998, these are the first 2 QBs I was willing to see the Panthers draft. Hard pass on drafting a QB from 1995 to 1997. It's not hard if you know what to look for in a QB. Patience in the time it takes to spot a QB is the hardest part. Could take 3 to 5 drafts before you see another one (1 to 2 if you are lucky). It's not hard. You just haven't put the time in to figure it out.

Ickey moving to OG

And then the front office realizes that they will have to beat CMC and the 49ers in the playoffs to be a champion... ooops That was a huge mistake. Those draft picks and anything the Panthers do is meaningless for the foreseeable future until they prove they can beat the 49ers in the playoffs.

So, we can come away with something from this season about the QB position. Teams keep wasting too much time and effort into 1st round QBs. Meanwhile, the late round and undrafted QBs are the ones that are stepping in to win. For the 1st round pick QB is a must crowd, do you now see how wrong your argument was about all the 1st round QBs slotted to start in the offseason. You lost track of all the undrafted and late round QBs backing up all those hopeful 1st round franchise QBs. More than 1/3 of the NFL will have these QBs leading their team by midseason.

The coaching is clearly worried about Ickey in the passing game. They set him up to play more like a guard at the LT position by getting him to the second level. He was covered by a TE most of the game on pass plays. They would even cover Ickey with 2 receivers. You could tell when the Panthers were going to run the ball because they would leave Ickey uncovered and put the strong side blocking to the right side of the line. If they covererd up Ickey, it was likely a 5 step drop. The few times they left Ickey uncovered for a 3 step drop, he got beat. He was beat badly on the TD throw to DJ. That was all PJ feeling the pocket and sticking to his footwork to hitch up into the pocket and not run scared or take the sack like Baker or Darnold would have done on a 3 step drop with a small window in the back of the endzone. He is great in run blocking, and much better when you set him up to play like an OG blocking down on the second level with no DL over top of him. He is great at picking up defenders from the interior of the OL front in a passing situation. He is awful at protecting the QB against edge rushers. The OL would be much better had they started with Bozeman at C, Christensen at LT and Ickey at LG. Oh well. At least they have learned to put Bozeman at center, run plays that get Ickey a quick release to the second level, and cover Ickey up with TEs to push the edge rush further away from Ickey.

The QB and RBs were able to play with patience from behind the LoS for the first time last week This was due to Bozeman at C firing up the OL and getting the calls right while actually moving one of the best DTs in the league with his blocking. The interior OL release to the second level was so much better. This was the OL CMC needed to play behind. They kept covering up Ickey with a TE (sometimes 2 TEs) so he had more time to set his pass pro too. Ickey against the pass has been a big problem all season when left without help. The OL had Ickey playing more like a guard in the running game with a TE to his outside and Ickey releasing to the second level to block LBs with Christensen pulling to the outside. PJ Walker also stepped up into the pocket and did not lose this footwork. On the TD pass to DJ, Ickey was left uncovered and got beat bad by the pass rusher. The pass rusher was feet away from PJ for a sack and PJ felt the rush. He followed through with his hitch steps to keep the timing on the pass to DJ and let the ball fly right before he was going to take a hit. Darnold or Mayfield would have seen Ickey get beat bad and bailed on that throw with the tightest of windows to DJ in the back of the endzone. They would have tucked the ball and taken the sack or tried to use their happy feet to get out of the pocket. PJ is not the best QB to have under center with other options available, but he has better footwork than Darnold or Mayfield in the pocket with pressure around him.

Elf wasn't in there to make the wrong calls and get blown up to keep the QB and RB from playing with patience. PJ and the RBs were able to play behind the LoS with patience against the Bucs.

Until you realize the SB record of all the teams that have picked #1 in the draft. Who is the last #1 pick QB that has won a SB with the team that drafted them? Peyton Manning? The SB winning teams would trade down and accumulate more draft capital. I'm aiming for a Bart Starr, Johnny Unitas, Roger Staubach, Joe Montana, Brett Favre, Kurt Warner, Tom Brady, or Russell Wilson while using the 1st round pick on defense or a freakish receiver. You can have your Bob Griese, Terry Bradshaw, Jim Plunkett, John Elway, Phil Simms, Troy Aikman, Ben Roethlisberger, or Patrick Mahomes. These are all the non-Mannings who have been to multiple SBs. Seems pretty even when it comes to 1st round or non-1st round QBs. You get better value with the non-1st QB while also having more opportunities to find a consistent champion with much less league wide competition. The Mannings were pedigree and are a special breed raised to be an NFL QB.

Cavanaugh was a highly touted QB coming out of college and going to the NFL. He came with hype. More hype than the QBs from the 2022 draft. Benjamin was Walsh's QB at Stanford before he became the 49ers coach. Montana was the starting QB for the 49ers by week 6 of his second year in the NFL. It did not take several years for him to earn the starting role. Walsh saw 3 reps from Montana at a UCLA practice field while scouting another player going into the 79 draft. Montana was simply a throwing arm for another player that fate crossed with Walsh. He told everyone that Montana would be their franchise QB. Prior to seeing Montana's reps due to dumb luck, Walsh was eyeing Steve Dils, Cavanaugh and Benjamin. Rookie QBs started all the time in their rookie year in Montana's era. Doug Williams, Phil Simms, Steve Fuller, Neil Lomax, Jim McMahon, Oliver Luck, Mike Pagel, John Elway, Jim Kelly, Tony Eason, Ken O'Brien, Dan Marino, Boomer Esiason, Randall Cunningham, Jim Everett, Chuck Long, Jack Trudeau, Mark Rypien, Vinny Testaverde, Troy Aikman, Rodney Peete, Jeff George, and Neil O'Donnell were all rookie franchise QBs. 11 of them started in the SB from 1984 to 1995 (11 starting SB QBs of 15 starting SB QBs). Does this still seem "rare" to you? College QBs are less likely to succeed like this in the modern era due to the drastic changes in the college game, and they tend to flame out in a few years with most success going to QBs not drafted in the 1st round.

Yes, Guy Benjamin drafted 51st overall (2nd), Matt Cavanaugh 50th overall (2nd) and Steve Young drafted 1st overall (1st).

The difference was replacing Elf with Bozeman. He had the communication and pre snap calls on the OL working better than Elf could ever hope to do. Bozeman has the OL to work with and makes the job on the QB and RB so much easier. PJ and the RBs were able to be patient all game long. CMC would have owned this game with Bozeman at center and PJ at QB. Not having Robby getting targets was a huge reason for improvement in play production in the passing game too.

NFL franchises go in with 1st round QBs starting in 2022. The late and undrafted QBs come out of 2022 with the better winning%. People still talk about how having a 1st round QB is necessary to win a SB in 2023. Stroud and Young get the attention while struggling like all the rest in the transition to the NFL.

It's cut and dry. Just not cut and dry the way you and most everyone look at having the top draft picks to build a championship winner.

If the Panthers win the division under Wilks, Fitterer is going to look really bad for trading CMC.

Get rid of Darnold. CHECK. Get rid of Mayfield. CHECK. Get rid of Elf. CHECK. GET rid of Rhule CHECK. Get rid of Robby. CHECK. Cancer removed. You realize these 5 people had too many chances at impacting every offensive play. Get rid of CMC? Noooooooo Only one more person on my list to get rid of to build on this teams foundation of talent. FITTERER! Big Thanks to Steve Wilks for pulling things together quickly even with Fitt shipping out CMC to make his job even tougher.

A Bozeman led OL looks so much better in run blocking and blitz pickups. Sorry you didn't get a Bozeman led OL CMC with a QB who could compliment you.

This is what the Bucs prepared for... this moment. They just were not expecting to be down 18 points nearing the end of the game

Perfect pass by PJ