CPantherKing

Did you know that most coaches who have won the SB had a winning record in year 1? Did you know just a handful of them had 2 losing seasons before they were SB contenders or won the SB? Did you know that no HC since the 60s has had more than 2 losing seasons before leading their team to SB contention and an eventual SB championship? Do you believe Rhule is the exception with a 7 year plan? So, is your goal to win a SB under the HC the Panthers hire or something else? Rhule should have never been hired when he proposed to be the first coach to lead a team to the ultimate goal with a 7 year plan. That tells you he has no idea how SB champion coaches have been made.

Who doesn't struggle as a HC? Any of the coaches who led the team that hired them to a SB championship since the 70s. That's not hate. Rhule just can't get it done in the NFL and doesn't have an NFL SB Championship plan. This is not the 1960s where you ride a coach for several losing seasons without free agency and a 33 round NFL draft until they have the team they need to win. It just take some fans longer to realize coaches, players, and GMs don't have what it takes to be a champion. The champions climb to the top quickly and don't give it up easily.

I made a point Beane was the future and should be the one to replace Hurney. Told again by the typical crew how wrong I was and how much better Gettleman was for the Panthers future. I obviously had zero clue on Beane's trajectory in the NFL. I knew Gettleman was a path to missed opportunity and a long winter for the Panthers, and once again history proves me correct.

Panthers have the Bengals OL of 2020. Panthers don't have a Chase type WR in the clutch. Baker is no where near Burrow when it comes to GWD ability. Panthers defense doesn't have proven defenders who can produce turnovers. Far from a Bengals 2021 or either Panthers SB losing teams. Why would we even hope to be SB losers? SB and dynasty is always the goal, or don't bother showing up on game day imo. We are hoping for a Rams 1999 miracle season. The pieces were out there to make this a possibility, but the front office missed the target in the offseason/draft. Approaching this season like it is anything less than a SB champion or bust season for Rhule was their first mistake. Allowing Rhule a 7 year plan and to existing a perpetual rebuilding season for 3 years is a problem.

So you think Ickey is Sewell level rookie quality? OT pass blocking 1 sack all season level in his rookie season? Stop comparing them. Ickey is already behind Sewell at this point last year. You sound like the the Butler defenders talking about how he can keep up with Aaron Donald and we need to be patient. Move Ickey to guard and be done with it. Panthers will be set at LG for a while.

Who called him a bust? He is not a good LT. I see him as a PB OG who the Panthers failed to assess properly and drafted too high. Some team will move him to OG if it isn't the Panthers because he won't be worth the 6th pick used on him or a veteran LT contract. The Panthers will still need to find a LT who can protect the QB.

How many sacks did Sewell have in his rookie preseason? For someone who likes facts, you made your own facts and didn't read. I was comparing preseasons. Sewell worked RT in training camp. Moved to LT in preseason due to an injury/concerns of the starting LT before the week 1 opener. That would be preseason. You like facts, but don't go by facts.

Hands low and wide. Ineffective punch. Target for long pass rushers, speed rushers, and tacticians. No balance and leverage in pass sets. Plays high. High hips. Centers weight over toes. This will lead to him adjusting slowly to stunts and getting turned opening an easy lane to the QB. In pass blocking you will also see him get over aggressive with a punch when he is desperate and feels like he is beat. This will lead to him over extending and lunging. He is known for even leaving his feet during this punch in pass sets. His kick slide is going to be tested often. He kicks 2 yards in 3 kicks instead of 3 yards consistently and this will lead to him trying to beat the snap against speed rushers. He consistently gets turned 90 degrees on the finish of his 2nd kick step at less than 2 yards deep. I'm expecting several false starts against the competition he will be facing. He has already done this a few times in 2 preseasons games. Officials are letting calls like this go in the preseason. As for the tape, I am not putting this together for you. Do your own homework and take notes. Btw, Sewell did not struggle with this technique on the right side. He quickly got better on the left side while he was there in an emergency for some games. Sewell's struggle was retraining muscle memory from right to left side. here is some video for you to look at besides taking notes on the actual game. Watch the better kick step and technique from BC next to him. This is the norm for Ekwonu. Not the exception. Watch his pass pro reps. He struggles bad with play action and 3 step drops. I am not looking forward to seeing him with 5 and 7 step drops against the level of talent he is going to face.

Fact: Sewell did not struggle at RT. His position he had been working on in the offseason/training camp. He struggled at LT until the starting LT could get back and went back to RT. He was made to adjust on the spot and still only allowed 1 sack. Facts. Fact. Ickey has been spending his time at LT and struggles greatly with his pass blocking. He can't say he had to adjust on the spot to a new position like Sewell. Sewell faced a greater challenge and performed better than Ickey. You can't compare them. Facts Even the Facts you applaud from @ForJimmy pointed out this fact you both overlooked. So, looking at all the facts and knowing what actually happened is not what you applaud as facts. You applaud half truths. Comparing Ickey to Sewell in their rookie years is like comparing Brown to Donald in their rookie years.

Sewell gave up one sack and played both LT and RT last season. Not sure how you compare that to a LT like Ickey who is very rough as a pass blocker. I wish Ickey had Sewell's pass blocking technique. Sewell gave up 1 sack in his rookie preseason. How you keep comparing them makes no sense. Ickey is no where near Sewell as a rookie. You may as well be comparing Aaron Donald struggling and developing as a rookie to Vernon Butler/Derek Brown as rookies.

There are only 2 outcomes to reach for... SB and Dynasty. If you are okay with anything else, then stop trading players/pciks, complaining about players/coaches, wanting the top players, caring about 1st round draft picks, and talking about making the playoffs. Rhule is a serious long shot to win a SB. I've pointed out before that SB winning coaches find their QBs and defensive leaders in the first 2 seasons, and most produce winning records in their first season. The rare exception is a coach who has 2 consecutive losing seasons, and only 3 coaches have had more than 2 losing seasons before turning their team into a consistent winner and a SB champion. Those 3 rare exceptions had their losing seasons in the 60s. This fan base went from expecting a winning season every year to accepting consecutive losing seasons for the sake of progress. SB winning coaches don't keep rattling off losses for multiple seasons when hired, and SB winning players/leaders don't take 3 to 4 years to develop before they make an impact. You want players who develop while they win and come up with clutch moments in games in year 1 and year 2.

I red flagged Penning too and pointed out why before the draft. The better OTs in this draft were drafted in the mid rounds. Penning will be a bust. Ickey will be a starting guard.

Panthers need a QB who can produce GWD, a #1 WR who can be clutch and make plays to get in the endzone, a TE who can be a consistent threat up the seam and in the redzone, a #2 RB who can move the chains, a LT who won't allow multiple sacks a game, a center who can keep the OL from imploding, offensive leaders, defensive leaders, a DL that can stop the run, a DE who can contain the edge, DBs who can produce turnovers consistently, and LBs who can fill the running lanes and get off blocks to stop the inside run. The Panthers are going to need to rely on CMC, quick slants, runs off tackle, screens, blitzes, pass rushing, and FGs to win games. If they can't get a double digit lead and hold it with CMC eating up clock in the 2nd half, then it does not look good. This team is not built to come from behind or win in the 4th quarter with a GWD (which is where most of the wins in the NFL come from). College ball in the NFL is painful to watch.

Was this unexpected? He is fragile with a reckless play style. I just hope he has the discipline to recover and not be a complete bust. His history tells us he won't be very disciplined. Good job Fitt for trading up for another player that won't work out. How many draft picks has this team wasted trading for trash players, rent a players, and moving up for red flag draft prospects under Rhule? How many wins has this front office strategy produced?

Because Ickey as a LT is not trending toward a "nailed" first round pick. Luke was out of position at OLB too and they moved him to MLB quickly. Leave him at OLB and he would have struggled. Imagine Peppers if he was not sacking the QB, but he was good against the run. Imagine CMC if he couldn't catch well and struggled between the tackles. Imagine Cam if he couldn't pass for more than 300 yards in a game. Imagine Luke if he couldn't get off a block and be among the lead leader in tackles. As a LT, Ickey's priority is to keep the blindside of the QB clean and let him pass from the pocket without worrying about the pass rush. If Ickey allows more than 5 sacks, 10 hits, and 30 pressures on the season, he is on a Vernon Butler trajectory. He looks like he will be on pace for 20 sacks, 40 hits, and 130 pressures with 600 pass attempts in 17 games. You pick. 5 sacks and a Peppers like path, or 20 sacks and a Butler like path? He just allowed 2 sacks in less than 1 half of play against the Patriots. He faces 4 of the top 5 pass rushers in the NFL. He will line up across from TJ Watt (1), Myles Garrett (3), Nick Bosa (4), Trey Hendrickson (5), Aaron Donald (7), Cam Jordan (8), Chandler Jones (14), Markus Golden (12), Shaquil Barrett (16), and Leonard Floyd (18) during his rookie season. All of these pass rushers are better than Burns and on par with Judon. This doesn't include the stunts he will likely face from Cameron Heyward and blitzes off the side from several DBs. We will quickly learn if he belongs at LT and preseason is not showing he will be able to handle it. That is the difference. The Peppers go up against the best and win in their rookie season. The Butlers struggle and get benched.

Just like Vernon Butler or Derek Brown, right? Panthers made a mistake drafting him to play LT. Plug him in at guard and be done with it. Front office just needs to own their mistake for drafting an NFL guard #6 overall. The Panthers are loaded with over valued 1st round picks.

Let's play an All Pro caliber LG at LT because we spent the #6 pick on him and don't want to admit he can't pass block effectively at the NFL level. Genius! Let's play a capable starting LT who can pass block at LG where he sucks at pulling and getting down field or getting off DTs to get to LBs. Genius!

BC is a better pass blocker than he is a run blocker. No surprise that Rhule likes to put players at the weaker position. See Chinn.

He is a mauler and not a tactician. Showed that at NC State. He is slow to get his angle and stands up/waist bends. 3 to 4 years before he is an acceptable pass blocking LT imo.

Ickey struggling at picking up the stunts at LT. Ouch He needs to be at guard pulling and run blocking. BC needs to be at LT picking up stunts and edge rushers. smh Ickey continues to struggle with pass blocking at LT. Great run blocking and mauler. Better at G.

Well... Most SB winning coaches have won out of the gate, or at most 1 losing season, before turning their SB winning franchise into a contender. Winning seasons out of the gate: Vince Lombardi, Hank Stram, Don McCafferty, Don Shula, John Madden, Tom Flores, Joe Gibbs, George Seifert, Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Brian Billick, John Gruden, Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Gary Kubiak, Andy Reid, and Sean McVay. 1 losing season before contending: Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Doug Pederson, and Bruce Arians. The exceptions to this are Pete Carroll, Dick Vermeil, Jimmy Johnson, and Bill Walsh with only 2 losing seasons before having a winning team. Three of these coaches had their QB in place year 1. 3 Chuck Noll, Weeb Ewbank 5 Tom Landry Walsh and Johnson had their SB QBs in place their first year. Carroll and Noll had their SB QBs by year 2. Vermeil and Ewbank by year 3. Landry by year 10, but he had Don Meredith in place going into the SB era. The rule here is if a HC does not win in year 1, doesn't have a QB in place by year 2, and doesn't have a top of the league defense with defensive leaders set by the end of year 2, then you dump them and move on. Rhule has 2 losing seasons under his belt, has yet to find his QB, and has yet to find his defensive leaders to build around. It's not going to happen, and there is no reason to keep him short of a miracle SB winning season. He should already be fired if the franchise is serious about winning championships. SB winning coaches and QBs don't take 3 years to be championship contenders.

If I view both BC and Ickey as starting OTs who would be ranked 20 to 25 in the NFL, I view BC as a 20 to 25 starting OG, and Ickey as a top 10 OG with PB potential, then what makes the most sense as the optimal starting lineup? Why would I want to go with an OT/OG combo that would produce among the bottom of the league when you have a PB potential at OG and a serviceable starting OT? The OL is better with Ickey at LG, and both Michael Jordan and Elf on the bench. I'd much rather have BC or Erving at LT than Michael Jordan or Elf at LG.

You sir are the winner. Ickey and Corbett at G would create a running/screen game that would open up everything for CMC. Ickey would be an immediate candidate for an All-pro spot in his rookie season. At LT, he gets eaten up by pass rushers, stunts, and blitzes off the edge. He'll be lucky to break the top 20 LTs in the NFL. BC has shown he can handle the edge rush as good if not better than Ickey. Ickey will eventually be moved to G in his career. If not with the Panthers, with another team that has a championship minded coaching staff.

LT BC, LG Ickey, C Bozeman, RG Corbett, RT Moton That's the winning line up to make the team better. I expect this from a losing organization: LT Ickey, LG MJ, C Elf, RG Daley, RT Moton Ickey will end up as a pro bowl guard. As LT he won't break into the top 20 LTs in the NFL. He doesn't have what it takes to shut down the speed rushers consistently in the NFL.