CPantherKing

There are only 2 outcomes to reach for... SB and Dynasty. If you are okay with anything else, then stop trading players/pciks, complaining about players/coaches, wanting the top players, caring about 1st round draft picks, and talking about making the playoffs. Rhule is a serious long shot to win a SB. I've pointed out before that SB winning coaches find their QBs and defensive leaders in the first 2 seasons, and most produce winning records in their first season. The rare exception is a coach who has 2 consecutive losing seasons, and only 3 coaches have had more than 2 losing seasons before turning their team into a consistent winner and a SB champion. Those 3 rare exceptions had their losing seasons in the 60s. This fan base went from expecting a winning season every year to accepting consecutive losing seasons for the sake of progress. SB winning coaches don't keep rattling off losses for multiple seasons when hired, and SB winning players/leaders don't take 3 to 4 years to develop before they make an impact. You want players who develop while they win and come up with clutch moments in games in year 1 and year 2.

I red flagged Penning too and pointed out why before the draft. The better OTs in this draft were drafted in the mid rounds. Penning will be a bust. Ickey will be a starting guard.

Panthers need a QB who can produce GWD, a #1 WR who can be clutch and make plays to get in the endzone, a TE who can be a consistent threat up the seam and in the redzone, a #2 RB who can move the chains, a LT who won't allow multiple sacks a game, a center who can keep the OL from imploding, offensive leaders, defensive leaders, a DL that can stop the run, a DE who can contain the edge, DBs who can produce turnovers consistently, and LBs who can fill the running lanes and get off blocks to stop the inside run. The Panthers are going to need to rely on CMC, quick slants, runs off tackle, screens, blitzes, pass rushing, and FGs to win games. If they can't get a double digit lead and hold it with CMC eating up clock in the 2nd half, then it does not look good. This team is not built to come from behind or win in the 4th quarter with a GWD (which is where most of the wins in the NFL come from). College ball in the NFL is painful to watch.

Was this unexpected? He is fragile with a reckless play style. I just hope he has the discipline to recover and not be a complete bust. His history tells us he won't be very disciplined. Good job Fitt for trading up for another player that won't work out. How many draft picks has this team wasted trading for trash players, rent a players, and moving up for red flag draft prospects under Rhule? How many wins has this front office strategy produced?

Because Ickey as a LT is not trending toward a "nailed" first round pick. Luke was out of position at OLB too and they moved him to MLB quickly. Leave him at OLB and he would have struggled. Imagine Peppers if he was not sacking the QB, but he was good against the run. Imagine CMC if he couldn't catch well and struggled between the tackles. Imagine Cam if he couldn't pass for more than 300 yards in a game. Imagine Luke if he couldn't get off a block and be among the lead leader in tackles. As a LT, Ickey's priority is to keep the blindside of the QB clean and let him pass from the pocket without worrying about the pass rush. If Ickey allows more than 5 sacks, 10 hits, and 30 pressures on the season, he is on a Vernon Butler trajectory. He looks like he will be on pace for 20 sacks, 40 hits, and 130 pressures with 600 pass attempts in 17 games. You pick. 5 sacks and a Peppers like path, or 20 sacks and a Butler like path? He just allowed 2 sacks in less than 1 half of play against the Patriots. He faces 4 of the top 5 pass rushers in the NFL. He will line up across from TJ Watt (1), Myles Garrett (3), Nick Bosa (4), Trey Hendrickson (5), Aaron Donald (7), Cam Jordan (8), Chandler Jones (14), Markus Golden (12), Shaquil Barrett (16), and Leonard Floyd (18) during his rookie season. All of these pass rushers are better than Burns and on par with Judon. This doesn't include the stunts he will likely face from Cameron Heyward and blitzes off the side from several DBs. We will quickly learn if he belongs at LT and preseason is not showing he will be able to handle it. That is the difference. The Peppers go up against the best and win in their rookie season. The Butlers struggle and get benched.

Just like Vernon Butler or Derek Brown, right? Panthers made a mistake drafting him to play LT. Plug him in at guard and be done with it. Front office just needs to own their mistake for drafting an NFL guard #6 overall. The Panthers are loaded with over valued 1st round picks.

Let's play an All Pro caliber LG at LT because we spent the #6 pick on him and don't want to admit he can't pass block effectively at the NFL level. Genius! Let's play a capable starting LT who can pass block at LG where he sucks at pulling and getting down field or getting off DTs to get to LBs. Genius!

BC is a better pass blocker than he is a run blocker. No surprise that Rhule likes to put players at the weaker position. See Chinn.

He is a mauler and not a tactician. Showed that at NC State. He is slow to get his angle and stands up/waist bends. 3 to 4 years before he is an acceptable pass blocking LT imo.

Ickey struggling at picking up the stunts at LT. Ouch He needs to be at guard pulling and run blocking. BC needs to be at LT picking up stunts and edge rushers. smh Ickey continues to struggle with pass blocking at LT. Great run blocking and mauler. Better at G.

Well... Most SB winning coaches have won out of the gate, or at most 1 losing season, before turning their SB winning franchise into a contender. Winning seasons out of the gate: Vince Lombardi, Hank Stram, Don McCafferty, Don Shula, John Madden, Tom Flores, Joe Gibbs, George Seifert, Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Brian Billick, John Gruden, Bill Cowher, Tony Dungy, Mike Tomlin, Sean Payton, Mike McCarthy, John Harbaugh, Gary Kubiak, Andy Reid, and Sean McVay. 1 losing season before contending: Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells, Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin, Doug Pederson, and Bruce Arians. The exceptions to this are Pete Carroll, Dick Vermeil, Jimmy Johnson, and Bill Walsh with only 2 losing seasons before having a winning team. Three of these coaches had their QB in place year 1. 3 Chuck Noll, Weeb Ewbank 5 Tom Landry Walsh and Johnson had their SB QBs in place their first year. Carroll and Noll had their SB QBs by year 2. Vermeil and Ewbank by year 3. Landry by year 10, but he had Don Meredith in place going into the SB era. The rule here is if a HC does not win in year 1, doesn't have a QB in place by year 2, and doesn't have a top of the league defense with defensive leaders set by the end of year 2, then you dump them and move on. Rhule has 2 losing seasons under his belt, has yet to find his QB, and has yet to find his defensive leaders to build around. It's not going to happen, and there is no reason to keep him short of a miracle SB winning season. He should already be fired if the franchise is serious about winning championships. SB winning coaches and QBs don't take 3 years to be championship contenders.

If I view both BC and Ickey as starting OTs who would be ranked 20 to 25 in the NFL, I view BC as a 20 to 25 starting OG, and Ickey as a top 10 OG with PB potential, then what makes the most sense as the optimal starting lineup? Why would I want to go with an OT/OG combo that would produce among the bottom of the league when you have a PB potential at OG and a serviceable starting OT? The OL is better with Ickey at LG, and both Michael Jordan and Elf on the bench. I'd much rather have BC or Erving at LT than Michael Jordan or Elf at LG.

You sir are the winner. Ickey and Corbett at G would create a running/screen game that would open up everything for CMC. Ickey would be an immediate candidate for an All-pro spot in his rookie season. At LT, he gets eaten up by pass rushers, stunts, and blitzes off the edge. He'll be lucky to break the top 20 LTs in the NFL. BC has shown he can handle the edge rush as good if not better than Ickey. Ickey will eventually be moved to G in his career. If not with the Panthers, with another team that has a championship minded coaching staff.

LT BC, LG Ickey, C Bozeman, RG Corbett, RT Moton That's the winning line up to make the team better. I expect this from a losing organization: LT Ickey, LG MJ, C Elf, RG Daley, RT Moton Ickey will end up as a pro bowl guard. As LT he won't break into the top 20 LTs in the NFL. He doesn't have what it takes to shut down the speed rushers consistently in the NFL.

Curtis Samuel Trai Turner Andrew Norwell

That defense has a soft middle with MLB, DT, and SS. Plus, there is no run contain at DE. Shaq, Luvu, and Burns better shoot all those gaps and not miss a tackle.

He looks like he should be playing guard. Not LT.

Bill Walsh and John McVay said you can't make something out of nothing, but all you need is to find a QB with basic intelligence and basic ability and you can develop them quickly. Walsh developed 4 SB contending QBs. Ken Anderson, Dan Fouts, Joe Montana, and Steve Young. Third rounders and a 1st round bust who came of age at 31 years old. Anderson, Fouts and Montana represented 3 of the 4 QBs in the conference finals. There's a reason the playoff successful QBs tend to be with the same teams/off the Walsh-McVay tree. It's not a lottery. You need to know how to spot these QBs in a matter of a few hours of repetitions, and you need to know how to develop them. Hardly rare how the Walsh/McVay system of developing a QB has led to numerous playoff/SB QBs including Favre, Rogers, Brees, Delhomme, Garoppolo, Mahomes, Goff, Stafford, Foles, Newton, Esiason, Montana, Anderson, Young, McNair, Dilfer, Flacco, Johnson, Gannon, McNabb, Hasselbeck, Grossman, Kaepernick, Wilson, and Ryan. Maybe they know the system to identify and develop a QB that was taught to them? I highly doubt the Rhule coaching tree will be as good at developing a QB quickly.

Corral played worse than many undrafted QBs in their rookie season with the 3rd team. You will find better QBs than Corral being cut by NFL teams in the coming weeks. 3rd round was a reach for Corral.

Rhule looks confused on that sideline

A QB like Howell or Corral should move the ball and excel against 3rd team NFL defenders.

And Michael Jordan