MasterAwesome

Normally I roll my eyes at the whole "obsessing over who is following who on Instagram" thing...but in this case, if Adam Thielen truly did just start following Bryce Young on Instagram, I think that's kinda eye-opening. No doubt Thielen asked the Panthers' FO who they were leaning towards drafting at #1 (I think he even admitted as much)...of course he'd want to know who he's catching passes from, after all. They may not have given him a definitive answer one way or another, but it's plausible they hinted one way or another. That being said, I doubt the Panthers are locked in on any QB at this point. Surely they have their leanings, but there is plenty of time for things to change before the draft.

I have a feeling the Bills weren't too happy with their pick either. If the Little pick was an F grade, then Cody Ford was around a D-. He had a 41.2 PFF grade last year and his career best was a 53.8. I'm surprised he's even still getting signed somewhere but I can only imagine it's because he has experience at OT and OG (albeit he sucks at both).

To be fair, I don’t think any WR he signs from FA will be an upgrade over DJ Moore. A bit nit picky I know, but I’d say 7/22 is more accurate.

Hey compared to what we paid Ian Thomas, seems like a bargain lol.

This is a pretty compelling win for the "salary cap is just a myth" gang. It's gotta be a pretty massive contract...

I don't know anything about this guy and generally speaking I agree that RB is a devalued position which I'd be wary of overdrafting. But this kind of black-and-white thinking is what had a bunch of posters against drafting Micah Parsons because "I ain't drafting no damn LB in the first round!!" and we see how that turned out. Rather than overly harping on the position itself, I think it's more useful to evaluate each prospect individually and the entirety of their skillset and what they bring to the table.

This makes zero sense lol. The QB rating is a composite score that is simply calculated from all of the individual conventional QB metrics: passing yards, attempts, completions, TDs, INTs. If your argument is that Darnold didn't play enough to consider his QB rating, then can you explain why his completion percentage is fair game? How does his lack of playing time skew one and not the other, when one is calculated from the other?

So what happens if we do end up re-signing Darnold? Hell, we’re already reportedly having preliminary talks with him which should already set off alarms for you. Is this new highly touted coaching staff with universal league-wide respect, just a bunch of blind delusional buffoons or what? That’s the problem with taking these arrogant hard-line positions on how “obvious” it is that a player is trash - it becomes pretty awkward when a respected non-Rhule coaching staff ends up signing him.

Hey maybe we're grooming Nicole Tepper as our future GM....that's why she was included in the coaching search this season

You cannot say Darnold is on the level of Goff. Talent wise, sure...but Goff's production blows Darnold's out of the water. He definitely showed improvement last season but he hasn't had anywhere near a full season of competent QB play and Goff has had several, with two different coaching staffs.

Maybe so, but cutting a middle-of-the-road overpaid running back isn't really evidence of that. They already started giving more and more carries to their 3rd round rookie RB Rachaad White in the second half of the season so the writing was already on the wall for Fournette who had a pretty underwhelming season.

I thought your point was that Brown is too light to play NT in a 3-4, no? I’m saying the guy Evero played at NT in his last defense was 5 inches and 15 pounds smaller than Brown.

I don't think it's that black and white. If we're to take a look at the Broncos' roster last year (since Evero is our DC now), they played D.J. Jones at NT who is listed at 305 pounds.

Yeah PFF is a little more ambiguous and murky because we don't know exactly how their grading is determined and it's a very holistic metric that accounts for every aspect of o-line performance (pass blocking, run blocking, penalties, etc.). It kinda makes sense if PFF inflated the grade of the Eagles' 2021 o-line because it'd be consistent with them inflating the grade of the 2022 Bears' o-line. So I think PFF is okay to use as a comparative tool (i.e. comparing one PFF score to another PFF score) since at least their methodology, however flawed, would be consistently applied. I would think something like Pressure Rate would be a bit more straightforward because it's a very specific focused metric. But even that would involve some subjectivity with respect to when a QB meets that specific threshold of being "pressured" or not. I'm guessing it depends on how close a defender is to the QB, but probably more of a snap judgment than some kind of precise measurement. But again since it'd theoretically be the same methodology applied consistently, I would feel comfortable comparing Pro-Football-Reference's Pressure Rate for 2021 Hurts against Pro-Football-Reference's Pressure Rate for 2022 Fields.

I mean I'm at work too...but it's Friday afternoon, just slack off like the rest of us you overachiever.

Personally I find it comical how you have to modify your criteria for Gettleman’s success from his Panthers tenure to his Giants tenure. With the Panthers, he was responsible for 3 straight playoff appearances!! Wow sounds pretty compelling. How many playoff appearances with the Giants? Oh…he went a combined 19-46 with zero playoff appearances? Oh wait but umm…oh that’s right he built that Giants foundation for the next GM to come in and succeed!! You realize that’s exactly what some people argue that Hurney did for Gettleman’s successful run, right? But I guess you would argue it’s wildly different…for some reason…just not one that you’d be able to articulate.

Supporting casts are difficult to evaluate sometimes because it's such a synergistic relationship with the QB, so it's hard to judge them independently of one another. Defense for sure I'll definitely give you that, but who's to say you put a guy like Cole Kmet on another team and he doesn't explode with a different QB? He's a young, talented 2nd round TE. Same with Darnell Mooney? He absolutely looked like a young up and coming receiver after his first two years in the league, before his production fell off this year. Chase Claypool had very solid #2 receiver numbers in his first two seasons, so I'd consider him a young up and coming receiver as well. The mid-season trade almost certainly hurt his production since he had to learn a new offense, but if he struggles this year after a full offseason with the Bears/Fields, then that's gotta make you wonder if he's being hurt by his QB play rather than the other way around. And just to clarify...if you're saying 2021 Hurts and 2022 Fields are similar and 2021 Hurts "didn't look great", are you saying that Fields didn't look great this year? Maybe I'm not fully comprehending your position. If you're simply saying Fields didn't look great this past year but you speculate that it's because of his poor supporting cast, then maybe we're not that far off from each other.

I think if you dive deeper into the statistics, they paint the picture of Hurts last year being a much more polished QB than Fields this year and that's something that's not necessarily reflected in the surface-level statistics like pass yards, TDs, completion %, QBR, etc. For example, I enjoy looking at some of the advanced statistics from Pro-Football-Reference.com: 2021 Hurts: 14% Bad Throws, 78.2% On Target Throws, 26.4% pressure rate per dropback, 26 sacks taken, 5.4% of passes dropped by receivers 2022 Fields: 19.3% Bad Throws, 71.1% On Target Throws, 26.9% pressure rate per dropback, 55 sacks taken, 5.2% of passes dropped by receivers So Hurts was more accurate, was pressured at a similar rate to Fields (a reflection of his o-line protection that was supposedly much better), took less than half the number of sacks despite that similar pressure rate (which I believe is a testament to his ability to evade the rush and navigate the pocket), and had a similar rate of dropped passes as Fields - which admittedly is only one metric of WR play and doesn't account for how often they were actually open (either through their own route running or through good offensive scheming). I don't think enough weight is given to Fields' crazy high sack rate. The easy connection to make is that high sacks = bad o-line and to a large degree that can be true, but if you look at other QBs with similar pressure rates, they're taking a fraction of the number of sacks that Fields takes. Fields took 55 sacks which was tied for the most in the league. Who was he tied with you may wonder? Russell Wilson, who was pressured at a higher rate (28.6% vs. 26.9%) and had the same number of sacks despite a whopping 165 more passing attempts. Fields had a similar problem in college with an incredibly high sack rate (i.e. taking sacks when pressured) so I don't think we can just hand-wave it away as simply an o-line problem. Obviously I'm putting a lot of weight in Pro-Football-Reference's data collection, so this is conditional upon their system being fairly accurate and consistent. I'll be the first to admit I didn't watch every Eagles game last year and every Bears game this year, but I am gonna go out on a limb and say none of us did lol so we are left to rely on these types of statistical comparisons.

I would just be extremely cautious to draw any overarching conclusions from that one-game sample size of Trevor Siemian against the #4 ranked Jets defense. I think what we would expect to happen, happened - a back-up QB struggling against a top-5 defense. I wouldn't say that outcome made me see Fields in a different light because like I said, I already think he's a much better QB than Siemian lol. We also don't know for sure how Fields would have done against that Jets' D. I would certainly guess he'd do better, but by how much would just be pure speculation and not really conducive to any objective and productive discourse. I brought up Stafford's stats just to show he was an elite passer by most metrics. If you're objectively an elite passer then you are afforded more leeway in your total evaluation as a franchise QB. I would never argue that it's all about wins and losses, but if you neither check the box for "elite production" nor the box for "wins" as a franchise QB, then what does the argument really rest upon? At that point it's all just speculative hypotheticals, i.e. if Fields has better weapons, coaching, o-line, etc. then he would be much more successful. You can make that argument, but again you'd just be taking the long way to my argument of Fields ultimately still being a question mark lol. He's no doubt an elite runner and extremely exciting there, but I don't think you can be a franchise QB without also being a threat in the pass game and I don't think he's there yet. Re: Hurts - that's another interesting comparison because last offseason, Hurts was still very much considered a question mark with regards to being a franchise QB. I just did a custom Google search for Hurts articles during the 2022 offseason to refresh my memory on his public perception and here are some of the article titles: "NFL writer believes Jalen Hurts puts Eagles in 'QB purgatory'" "Jalen Hurts embraces criticism" "Philadelphia Eagles QB Jalen Hurts getting 'one-year audition' in 2022 season" "Is Jalen Hurts the long-term answer at QB?" Plus countless more articles about what Hurts needs to do in order to take that next step in becoming a franchise QB. So yeah you correctly point out the similarities in Hurts last year vs. Fields this year, but again I would say that bolsters my argument that Fields isn't there yet because that was precisely the narrative around Hurts last offseason. Hurts took a monumental jump in his development this season and that's what I'm looking for in Fields as well. And likewise man, I genuinely enjoy our discussions! It's not a coincidence that I'm only replying to your posts and intentionally disregarding those who I believe have proven to be disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.

Stafford is a wild comparison considering he was busting out 5000+ yards and 40+ TDs in his second full season. Even so, Lions were 0-16 pre-Stafford, 2-8 with Stafford his rookie season, and 10-6 in his second full season (he was injured his actual sophomore year). So it's again extremely consistent with the trends that I'm talking about when it comes to the "before and after" of securing a franchise QB. Tbh I'm confused at your point about the Bears going 0-1 without Fields (really 0-2 if I may throw you an assist lol). They were 3-12 with Fields, so what is the argument? And they got blown out worse against the Lions (41-10) with Fields playing, so that wasn't even their worst loss of the season without him. Your argument basically seems to be that they're a bad team with Fields, and still a bad team without Fields, which again I'd argue is a point against him being a game-changing franchise QB. If you think I'm arguing that he's on par with Trevor Siemian then I assure you I am not lol.

I'm glad you brought up Lawrence cause he's actually a good basis for comparison. Jags went from 1-15 (pre Lawrence) to 3-14 to 9-8. That's exactly the type of impact/trajectory I would expect a franchise QB to make on his team. I'll admit last year I still considered Lawrence a question mark because his team experienced minimal improvement, but I think he has proven himself in his second year. I also think it's way too premature to formulate a conclusion based on one season, which is why I'm looking at the 2-year trajectory. You also see guys like Christian Kirk and Zay Jones experiencing career years catching passes from Lawrence. That's what I mean when I say I want a franchise QB elevating his team around him. You don't see guys having career years catching passes from Fields; if anything, you see a significant drop in production...but it's too soon to say. Like I said, this will be a very telling 3rd season for Fields. Well I guess depending on the types of moves the Bears make in their offseason to help him out.

It's saying things like "got rid of Allen Robinson" near the top of your list that make it sound very much like you're starting with your conclusion and then formulating your argument as you go. Allen Robinson was very unproductive last year (400 yards and 1 TD) and has continued to look unproductive this year in an entirely different offense. That's quite the reach to be attributing, even in part, his departure to Fields' struggles. And yeah I get it, the Bears' D was pretty awful even without a caveat...but when your offense leads the league in 3-and-outs, it's also naturally making the defense's job more difficult. I'm not surprised they're "losing", but my bar for a franchise QB is certainly higher than "worst team in the league after 2 seasons". Again, I want to see someone who elevates the rest of the team. A guy who proves he can win in spite of his lackluster supporting cast, not someone who loses because of them. A franchise QB is the most important position on the team as many have stated year after year after year...I want to see a guy who is capable of putting his team on his back to will his team to victory. Otherwise if he needs a strong supporting cast around him to win, then you're basically just talking about a JAG game manager. Maybe your definition of franchise QB is different from my definition. I said it's a red flag to find yourself constantly providing a laundry list of excuses as to why your supposed franchise QB is failing to produce wins, and your response was to do exactly that. So I'm guessing I'm not the one you're trying to convince here.

I’ve never seen a team supposedly secure their surefire mega-talented franchise QB and somehow get significantly worse each year since drafting him…just saying. From 8-8 to 6-11 to a league-worst 3-14. I mean, a franchise QB is the most important asset to a team…right? Either Fields is overhyped, or a franchise QB isn’t very impactful. It’s a glaring red flag if you find yourself making countless excuses about why your supposed franchise QB can’t get it done. The common thread between true franchise QBs is that they elevate the team around them. I know I’ve sounded like a vocal Fields critic on these boards but honestly my very uncontroversial stance is that he’s simply still a question mark. This third year is going to be huge in giving us a clearer picture one way or another. I’m just baffled by the people acting like he “arrived” this year, while leading his team to the worst record in the NFL.

Did Tepper just come into money in the last couple weeks or something? Money has always been a factor, when posters were saying no coaches would want to come here.

Remember those silly, extra whiny posters who were insisting that no respectable coach with any prospects would even consider coming to such a dysfunctional dump of a franchise? Pepperidge Farm remembers.