MasterAwesome

Being passed over for OC roles is a part of the overall evaluation but a relatively minor one IMO. I think it sheds some light on how he is perceived in NFL front offices so it's certainly relevant...but ultimately whether a team hires you or not is completely immaterial to your actual abilities. Ron Rivera getting hired by Washington immediately after we fired him didn't make him a better coach than he would have been otherwise if he hadn't gotten any job offers. He still is what he is and always has been, and should be much more significantly evaluated for his actual body of work rather than evaluated based upon the amount of job opportunities that were available to him. Hell, look who our presumed starting quarterback is. Should Darnold get credit for managing to stick around in the league this long? Or rather should we evaluate him for his actual abysmal performance as a QB? I'm guessing the sentiment will be "no because it's the dumb Panthers who gave him another starting opportunity", in which case how about someone like Carson Wentz, Jared Goff, Jimmy Garoppolo, Teddy Bridgewater etc. who are still bouncing around and clinging onto starting opportunities?

Ok I'll need you to explain your strange arbitrary math once again. 2015 OC McAdoo = 6th ranked offense (top 6) = "good" 2016 HC McAdoo = 26th ranked offense (bottom 7) = "horrible" Your intentionally hyperbolic language is dropping your veil of objectivity. And relax, no one said or even insinuated you're a Coughlin superfan. No need to resort to hysterics.

And what exactly are you doing? You're quite clearly dismissing his 2 good years out of 4 (which incidentally are the two most relevant years when evaluating him as Offensive Coordinator), or at the very least discrediting/casting doubt on those years by throwing out baseless speculation that Tom Coughlin was likely behind his success. Do you have any self-awareness? Here's McAdoo's resume: -2 solid years as OC -2 poor years as HC with playcalling duties When evaluating McAdoo as an OC candidate, I think any rational objective person would assign the overall weight something around 75% for his performance as OC and 25% for his performance as play-calling HC. You seem to be doing the opposite: 75% of the weight assigned to play-calling HC and 25% of the weight assigned to his years as OC. Otherwise I don't know how you take the above resume and conclude that McAdoo is a bottom 1/3 OC in the NFL. If I'm being ULTRA charitable to you, those 2 good years and 2 bad years should logically be a wash and put him around the middle, i.e. an average OC. Please make your equation make sense.

These criticisms give me the same energy as people complaining about rich people taking advantage of tax breaks/loopholes on their personal/corporate income taxes. Is it shady, or at the very least terrible optics? Yeah, but the actual problem is with the economic and political systems in place that allow these things to happen. Guys like Tepper (and every other billionaire) are just an inevitable byproduct of these corrupt systems. People furious at Tepper are misdirecting their anger.

He said "6 of the top 8 pass rushers" in the very same post you quoted. That presumably excludes Joey Bosa and Myles Garrett. So the only one you may have contention with is Nick Bosa.

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/sports/football/new-york-giants-hire-ben-mcadoo-a-coughlin-assistant-but-his-own-man.html https://nypost.com/2014/10/07/an-inside-look-at-why-and-how-coughlin-turned-over-the-reins/

You realize even with a healthy OBJ in his first year as HC/OC, his offense was 26th in PPG right? I’m not sure why you even need to go into the “without a healthy OBJ” argument. His offenses didn’t perform well while he was the head coach, with or without OBJ. Which is why I’m glad we didn’t hire him as our head coach.

Let me ask you once again: Given the fact that Coughlin + Gilbride produced the 28th ranked offense in 2013, Coughlin + MacAdoo produced the 13th ranked offense in 2014, and Coughlin + MacAdoo produced the 6th ranked offense in 2015…your logical conclusion is that Coughlin was probably the X factor responsible for their offensive turnaround? If Coughlin is pulling the strings for their offense, you would see consistent results from year to year…not a clear drastic improvement from one OC to the next. It’s funny you bring up the term “variables” - are you familiar with the concept of a control variable? Hint: it’s Coughlin. As for your last paragraph…”the narrative in the Giants overly predictable playcalling only appeared when McAdoo was in over his head trying to be the head coach and offensive playcaller”. It’s actually super simple. If I’m a full-time dishwasher at a busy restaurant and my manager comes up to me and says “hey I’m gonna need you to keep washing the dishes but also wait tables cause we’re understaffed, even though you’ve never waited tables before” - guess what, I’m probably not gonna do such a great job washing dishes OR waiting tables. You should look into something called “Occam’s Razor”.

We talking about the same Tom Coughlin who coached the Giants from 2004 to 2015, right? Why would you invoke Tom Coughlin when I’m drawing a clear comparison in offensive performance from 2013 -> 2014 -> 2015 during which Coughlin was the head coach? Is the implication that Coughlin was not involved while Kevin Gilbride was OC but as soon as McAdoo was brought on, Coughlin was like “move aside, figurehead. I got this”. Otherwise Tom Coughlin + Kevin Gilbride = 28th ranked offense, and Tom Coughlin + Kevin Gilbride = Top 10 offense. Not sure how you get Tom Coughlin as being the main factor out of that. I don’t understand all the mental gymnastics in what should be a pretty straightforward evaluation of Ben MacAdoo’s career as an OC. We hired MacAdoo as our OC, not as our HC with playcalling duties. So the logical approach should be “let’s go back and see how MacAdoo did as OC”. And the sample size is small, but promising. That’s it…it’s very simple.

Sure we can't "totally disregard" it. But I mean you have to see the flaws in comparing *HC w/ playcalling duties Ben McAdoo* to *OC Ben McAdoo* though, right? I think by far the simplest and most rational explanation is that first-time HC Ben McAdoo had way too much on his plate in learning to be a head coach while choosing to maintain playcalling duties. It takes a lot of experience to be a head coach and playcaller without one or both of those roles suffering as a result. McAdoo clearly did not have that experience and it was foolish of him to try and juggle both full-time roles. The alternative is that McAdoo came into a 28th ranked offense, transformed it into the 13th ranked offense in his first year as OC, further solidified it into the 6th ranked offense in his second year as OC, then just somehow forgot how to Offense in his third year with the Giants when he just so happened to coincidentally transition into his role as their head coach. Besides, considering you're a big fan of Joe Brady, then you should be really damn excited for McAdoo's offense if it's being characterized as "too predictable" and "running the same plays over and over" lol.

Why dwell on his team's offensive performance while he was HC though? It's not an apples-to-apples comparison; we want to evaluate McAdoo's performance as an OC since that's the role he's serving here. It's logical to think, as HC, he was much more hands-off with his offense than while he was the OC where that'd be his sole focus. I think a more apt comparison is to look at the Giants' offense before and after he was brought on as OC. In 2013 (the year before McAdoo was brought on as OC), the Giants ranked 28th in yardage and 28th in points. In 2014 in McAdoo's first year as OC, the Giants ranked 10th in yardage and 13th in points. In 2015 in McAdoo's second (and final) year as OC, the Giants ranked 6th in points and 8th in yardage. That's a pretty good track record as OC, although fairly limited. I think we can all agree he was a failure as a HC and if Rhule gets fired and McAdoo takes his place full-time (beyond an interim role), I'm gonna be just as disappointed as most everyone else here.

Well yeah of course. McAdoo as a head coach hire should and would be evaluated completely differently than McAdoo as an OC hire. 99% of the board wanted Ron Rivera fired as our coach but I’m pretty sure that same 99% of the board would have loved seeing Rivera as our DC instead.

Burns is good but he seems to largely be the same guy from his rookie season. I don’t really see him having progressed or developed from season to season. Hoping to see him finally take that leap into elite territory this year.

Davis Mills is being pretty disrespected considering his rookie season compared to his fellow rookies like Lawrence, Wilson, and Fields, who Simms is rating 10+ spots higher despite them performing statistically at Darnold-levels of garbage.

There's no way he'd come within 50 miles of the Giants organization as long as Gettleman was there, but since G-magic is "retired" now, Smitty can have a little fun with them.

The draft room high-fiving is always a hot topic on the Huddle lol. I still cringe thinking about the Huddlers who obsessed for months over the clip of the Bills' 2019 draft room high-fiving after we took Greg Little, so they could take Cody Ford...the guy they moved from Tackle to Guard to Bench over the course of three seasons lol. He's basically their Dennis Daley, except they took him with the 38th overall pick. Better than Greg Little? Sure. Bust of a 2nd round pick? Also yep.

The keyword in your post is "maybe". As in there's a lot of uncertainty around Christensen and the team's vision for him, so it's very premature to have any strong opinions about his career outlook. It's pretty funny to me how the narrative around BC after the end of the season went from: "Brady looked like our second best o-lineman, after Moton. Especially later in the season". to "Man I wish the coaching staff played Brady more so we could see what we really have in him. Maybe we could actually have a capable LT on our hands if he had more playing time" to "Brady is looking like a career back-up and a waste of a 3rd round pick" The sentiment towards Brady went from positive -> uncertain -> negative...and here's the hilarious kicker...all during the OFFSEASON while Brady hasn't even done anything on the field I get that part of our opinion on a player is tied to how the coaching staff (i.e. Rhule) uses or views a player, but we're talking about the same guy who has proven to be incompetent? The same guy who not a single person on these boards trusts to exhibit sound judgment? That's the guy whose decisions are going to affect how we view a player?

Did you...mean......to compliment him...?

You ever see a T-Rex try to hike a football? Exactly...

I mean…Kenny has spent more than 3 months on our practice squad over the last two seasons. So if these teams wanted to sign him, they’ve had plenty of opportunity to do so.

Based on the exchanges in this thread, I think we know who the resident Huddle Karen is lol.

Meh he’s got some very uninspiring Rashard Higgins-esque production but I guess they’re banking on his potential. Just don’t really see him achieving that potential catching passes from Marcus Mariota.

Whoops...who's gonna tell them?

Even though this article is about a specific player on another team, this is the message that I think every fanbase should take to heart and engage in a little introspection. Every fanbase has people who incessantly direct hate online towards these players deemed underperforming - "this lazy POS just collecting paychecks" etc. and justify it by saying they make millions and therefore are subject to hate and criticism. It's okay to be levelheaded and say a player is performing poorly and that we need to upgrade a position, but fans can take it way too far. This is just common decency stuff that applies outside of the sports arena as well. If you have a server at a restaurant who is inattentive or slow with their service, puts in the wrong order, etc. But before blowing up on them, consider maybe their loved one just passed away, or they're a sleep-deprived single parent raising 3 kids at home trying to pay the bills, or they have some kind of up-and-down debilitating neuromuscular disorder and it's a particularly rough day for it. Yeah maybe in some cases it's just a lazy incompetent employee but you're not always in a position to make that judgment call so why not give the benefit of the doubt?

Rhule created the playbook and did the playcalling? Cause that’s what I’m talking about. Not some generic instruction like “run the ball a lot” or something.