MasterAwesome

So can someone clarify if the starting o-line was out there? I’m seeing something about Clowney destroying some RT named Badara Traore. Did Moton have the night off? Cause that would explain some of the o-line struggles tonight. I also saw some mention of Zavala getting a lot of snaps (which would DEFINITELY explain the o-line struggles), but not sure if that was 1st team or 2nd team.

I still don't see why Bryce's ceiling can't be a Drew Brees. We're talking about ceiling...i.e. the absolute best case scenario (not what he is likely to become). So he's miles away from that comparison, but I think they have similar strengths (brain, poise, anticipation) and similar weaknesses (physical limitations in size and arm strength). I think the biggest obstacles to Bryce being in remotely the same league as Brees are his accuracy (particularly with his deep ball) and his sloppy footwork. But Canales is making it a point of emphasis to coach up his footwork, and footwork is inextricably tied to a QB's accuracy.

It's hard to say cause the NFL obviously takes a huge backseat to college football down here (I live in Greenville SC). I haven't met many Panthers fans either, but I don't know how much of that is because Clemson/USC overpowers all football conversations.

It's too soon to say. Apparently Deven Thompkins who we signed 6 days ago is already standing out in training camp too.

Do we even know he's really 6'6" though? I would have to see a picture of him standing next to maybe a mid-size tree or a Stop sign for reference to be convinced. We all know the official Combine measurements are a lie, considering Bryce is actually 5'2, not 5'10.

Unless you want to contest the RAS as an acceptable metric of athleticism...which I would think is an unpopular opinion.

I don't even think the answer was 23-10 (i.e. 13). "If you were born 10 years ago, how old would you be" - you'd be 10 years old...period. The "you're 23 years old..." preceding the question is irrelevant and is why the framing of the question seems to have confused a lot of people, yourselves included.

Yeah I agree 100% about WR/Scheme. I just find it ironic that the people who fail to recognize that, are the ones who would see a passing chart like that and unknowingly think it belongs to a JAG game manager ("game manager" in a pejorative sense) and not the reigning Super Bowl champion/potential greatest QB of all time in his prime. It feels like some people just have a personal intuitive belief or desire of how the game is/should be played and it sometimes contradicts reality. How many times do we hear that the run game is antiquated and that this is an offense-driven league? Yet...3 of the top 4 teams last year had Top 5 rushing attacks. 3 of the top 4 teams also had Top 5 defenses...including, again, the reigning Super Bowl champs who were essentially carried all season by that defense. Yet people still want to believe that the Chiefs success last year was on the back of Mahomes. Yes, Mahomes is incredible and an elite QB is always obviously a huge asset to have. But the Mahomes last year felt a lot more like the "just 1 of 11" type QB that Canales has been preaching that is part of the formula, performing within his role and distributing the pass efficiently rather than playing Superman and carrying the team.

Not only was Mahomes not in the top group, he was apparently one of the worst deep passers in the league last year. Yet he won the Super Bowl...hmm....

Well now you're making me defend things I've never said. I've never claimed that throw was "impressive". I just think you have an unrealistic standard for deep passes in general, and I also think you're overreacting to this one clip. You guys claim that Bryce basically never attempts deep passes (even in practice) and you expect him to instantly nail the timing on a deep throw to Diontae? These things require many many reps to master between a QB and his receiver. Even if I grant you that 55 yards is Bryce Young's absolute max air distance on his throws - then presumably all it would take is Bryce throwing the ball half a second earlier and then that pass is on the money without Diontae slowing down. These are exactly the types of things that training camp is meant to work through. I think you're still downplaying how hard it is to make a 55-yard throw on the money to a receiver in stride, even if we're talking straight line in practice with zero pressure in your face. It'd be comparable to, say, the pinpoint accuracy it would require to toss a football 55 yards into a standard commercial trash can (let's say 55 gallon). Do you think that's a super easy thing that every elite NFL QB would do on every pass in practice with no pressure? A throw like Bryce's in the clip is technically significantly harder because of the aforementioned timing when factoring in an actual receiver rather than a stationary target.

I don't think throwing 55+ yard passes in stride with zero WR adjustment is as commonplace as you think. Even significantly shorter throws than that from elite NFL QBs routinely have receivers slowing down or adjusting to the pass in some way. If the receiver catches it and scores, no one cares or dwells on an underthrown ball. Remember Cam's first NFL TD pass against the Cardinals? That ball was significantly underthrown to a wide open Steve Smith and yet everyone was hype. I saw a lot of underthrown deep balls from Stroud to wide open receivers last year but no one cares cause their talent and scheme allowed for a margin of error...ours didn't. That's what separates good teams from bad teams.

Right...the bolded is the rational takeaway from this. One of the best corners in his athletic prime running deep in coverage against an almost 34-year-old Thielen who even 10 years ago was never known for his athleticism. The rest sounds like you're nitpicking to explain why this throw wasn't *perfection*, rather than why it was "not good", which was the original claim I was challenging. The gap between "not good" and "perfect" is quite enormous. I am willing to bet impartial observers would watch this clip and unanimously consider this at least a "good" throw into blanket coverage. Do you disagree? You mentioned on Bryce's other deep ball where the receiver (I think Diontae) had to slow down a bit towards the end. Do you see Thielen letting up even a little bit on this one? Seems like he threw it to a max speed Thielen in stride...but as you correctly pointed out, this is a nightmare match-up for Thielen against Jaycee Horn who was probably lightly jogging to stay in stride with him. Trying to extrapolate beyond that is quite desperate IMO.

So articulate specifically what was awful about this throw and what a good deep passer would've done to make this a catch.

Yeah we know Thielen isn't explosive, which is the standard you seem to be holding him to. He may not be in the top 100 in YPC or YAC, but he was 12th in the league in 1st Downs. He's a reliable chain-mover in the short to intermediate range, in the mold of a Julian Edelman late in his career. There is a place for these types of receivers in an NFL offense, especially one led by a QB like Bryce Young who seems to live in that short-intermediate range. I agree that Thielen shouldn't be the focal point of an offense, but the way you continuously characterize Thielen's contributions is a bit reductive and dismissive IMO (i.e. "force fed BS routes"). I've heard you talk about Hunter Renfrow on these boards a bit, and you acknowledge that Renfrow fits a niche role in a specific type of offense but you also say that you think he would benefit Young. I 100% agree with you on that. My point of disagreement however is that you seem to think more highly of a Renfrow than a Thielen, when they're remarkably similar. Maybe I'm misunderstanding your position and you would feel the exact same if you swapped Thielen and Renfrow. This is Renfrow's best season to date (top), against Thielen's last season with the Panthers (bottom).

I'm not super optimistic about either of them on their own as individual players. But yeah as a duo, they just seem (on paper) to be a perfect complement to one another. I wouldn't be surprised at all if Johnson has Top 10 numbers this year.

Oh really? Don't make me release my DMs...!!

I'm pretty sure the "Cool" is just a play on words, considering it's a "cooling trailer". Clowney says this is the first time he's had a cooling trailer and he's played for 5 other teams before us, so it's at least somewhat innovative.

It's interesting how a position like "I'm not ready to write off Bryce Young yet" has for months been considered delusional cope by a very vocal and active group of posters on these boards, but with the broader general fanbase that's actually a relatively mild take that >90% would agree with. This just goes to show how incredibly radicalized the Huddle has become. https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5644267/2024/07/18/carolina-panthers-fan-survey-results-bryce-young/

We talking about the same posters who call people "Tepper simps" for simply suggesting that people are overreacting to the Wilson firing? These are the super open-minded posters who are tolerant of differing opinions that are getting bullied by the "cope brigade"? Give me a break. People might take you more seriously if you did what you do best and "both sides" things. Pretending like there isn't toxicity from both groups is delusional. Instead, you singularly villainize one side...clearly because you're firmly entrenched in the other. Trust me we all wish you, as a Moderator, would take up the mantle as an impartial arbiter and regulate tensions between the two sides but you continuously just throw gasoline on the fire or even often light the match yourself, taking petty, often unprovoked childish jabs any chance you get. Speaking of mods...it's funny how Icege is just echoing the same exact things Rayzor (the People's Mod ) has been saying for a while now (even in the same snarky tone), and yet you respond to Rayzor with a very neutered, meek, submissive energy. Very sassy and combative when addressing normal posters though...I guess cowardly bullies are more comfortable punching "down" huh? For all the hate Tepper gets in here, you're essentially the David Tepper of Huddle mods. Last thing, cause I know paragraphs trigger you almost as much as my username: that's a weird characterization of Icege considering he put more time, effort, and analysis into just one of his two recent threads than you have put in your last 40,000 posts combined. So what's "rich" is you getting off questioning someone else's contributions and purpose on these boards. https://www.carolinahuddle.com/topic/255029-a-comparison-of-qbs-drafted-1-overall/ https://www.carolinahuddle.com/topic/255565-call-me-crazy-but-we-might-have-improved-the-pass-rush-after-all/

If you really wanna clutch your pearls, you should be joining in with the people you’re selectively criticizing…against your buddies who were treating Wilson like the poor victim/noble martyr of a meanie unfair billionaire. Imagine being assaulted by someone in a prominent position, him getting fired, and people on the internet jumping through hoops to publicly coddle your abuser and propping him up as a hero (“told the truth about Bryce and got fired” lol) or at the very least, just a blameless victim of collateral damage of a dysfunctional organization. Save the phony performative outrage. That was such an embarrassing thing to post.

I really don't understand how you can argue Thielen was overpaid. 36th highest contract for a Wide Receiver and we got a thousand yards out of him in this offense? Thielen isn't sexy but he pairs well with Bryce IMO. There's a reason why Bryce fed Thielen in the passing game...cause he excels in the short-intermediate range where Bryce is most comfortable throwing (hopefully that changes), and he's the only true route runner we had. Diontae Johnson on paper seems to be an upgraded version of Thielen who can excel in that role, but I'm not sure that relegates Thielen to the bench. I think benching the one receiver Bryce has proven rapport with is risky.

Even if we draft a complete bust with the Rams' 2nd next year, we still technically "won" that trade from a value standpoint. It was the "most expensive Day 2 overpay of at least the last six drafts". I think we have a tendency to conflate draft trades together with the players drafted with those picks when they should be evaluated separately IMO. If we do end up drafting a bust with that pick next year, I would still say we won on the trade, but we failed on the selection. Also despite the compensation being minimal, I'd say getting a 6th + 7th for Robbie/Chosen Anderson and a 7th for Greg Little were both absolute steals lol. Kelvin Benjamin for a 3rd + 7th was also a huge W. He almost immediately washed out of the league afterwards.

I do agree in principle with a new coaching staff evaluating each player on the roster with more-or-less a clean slate. God knows we haven't had the stellar kind of coaches to develop players and maximize their skillsets. I won't hold my breath that Thomas will amount to anything though.

Rich Eisen: “How is Bryce Young looking right now after his season, Adam?” You wanted him to deflect and talk about Derrick Brown or roster long-shots? What? Clearly you didn’t click the link in the OP or watch the interview if you think “they” (the Panthers) put this out. It’s an NBCSports article that references an interview Thielen did recently on the Rich Eisen show where he was asked a direct question about Bryce Young. So who exactly is running PR for the Panthers here? NBCSports? Or Rich Eisen?

Some of you need to understand that these types of articles/"fluff" pieces aren't catering to the types of fans who are going scorched earth rage-posting online about "clown show" this and "dumpster fire" that and getting ticked off at the sight of a few seconds of David Tepper in a 45-minute video. Y'all are a particularly niche subset of the fanbase to get irrationally upset over these things and are far beyond placating. There's zero reason from a business perspective (which is what this is at the end of the day) to waste a second thinking about a portion of the fanbase who has zero excitement around the team, won't go to a single game this year, won't buy any merch, etc. If you're the type of person who acknowledges there's nothing the team could do or say in the offseason to sway you in any way, then have the awareness to recognize that you're not the target audience. Yes, a lot of people (myself included) are numb to these types of articles and are in a "just show me" mindset...but getting upset at an incredibly milquetoast piece of praise like "Bryce looks more comfortable" is honestly pretty unhinged. Thielen is even explicitly acknowledging a similar sentiment as you in the last paragraph of the article: He's basically saying "yeah this is the offseason so take all of this with a grain of salt". I don't even think this rises to the level of "fluff".