MasterAwesome

Yet he has the 5th most time in the pocket out of any QB this season. Sometimes QBs hold the ball too long.

A bit premature to make that call. Stroud had an incredible rookie season, but this year he has been an average to below average starting QB in virtually every relevant metric, other than being 9-5 with a Top 5-10 defense, in an awful division. Year 3 will be telling to see if he looks more like Rookie CJ or Sophomore CJ. If it's Sophomore CJ...then trading the haul that we did for a statistically middle-of-the-road starting QB doesn't seem worth it...?

Yeah the issue is your incessant need to sensationalize everything. Why can't you just say you have higher standards for our QB, instead of "Bryce is on par with the guy who was just BENCHED against Tampa Bay for being so awful!!!" which was just a lie. It's ironic that the broader conversation here is around people who just point to stats/box scores without actually watching the game or putting it in context of how Bryce actually looked on the field...and then you literally just did that egregiously for Aidan O'Connell lol. You've perfectly exemplified why it's silly to make assumptions entirely from a box score.

Did you really just glance at a Box Score and conjure up a narrative around it? Lol O’Connell didn’t get benched for Ridder, he got carted off the field with a knee injury.

https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/lists/panthers-eagles-week-14-pff-grades/ Here's the full list of Top 5/Bottom 5 for offense and defense. DJ Johnson has quietly put together back-to-back solid performances (or solid PFF grades, at least). Especially in a game where the rest of our starting D-line filled up the entire Bottom 5.

Welp, at least the Chuba extension is looking better...

I still think your career being on the line poses more pressure than your season being on the line, but I guess we can agree to disagree cause it's admittedly subjective. If I only addressed the "least important" part of your post, that's usually an indicator that it was the only part I disagreed with. So the "what else do you want me to say" is a bit defensive but I apologize if it seemed like I was coming at you. Just had a minor disagreement with one part of your post. I do agree with everything else you said.

All this time the majority consensus on the boards is that we've wanted to see flashes, the ability to throw deep, to pass the eye test, to look competent and composed against tough competition, to be able to make this team competitive...all qualitative metrics. "Stats can lie" is a sentiment I've seen posted quite a bit in here...but all of a sudden some of you have become devout statisticians who just copy/paste box scores. Like come on guys...moving the goalposts isn't new here, but this thread was from two and a half weeks ago. Most of what was laid out in there, is unfolding before our eyes. Production is obviously important and will need to improve before we can reasonably anoint Bryce our franchise QB; but as long as Bryce continues developing and gaining confidence, the production should come. Especially if our receivers can develop their skillsets and confidence alongside him.

They're hardly meaningless...especially to him. Regardless of our record, he has been under enormous pressure to perform since this very well could've been the nail in the coffin of his NFL career if he came back from his benching looking like the same awful overwhelmed QB from the start of the season. "Performing when the games 'matter'" is essentially a proxy for "performing under pressure" and I don't know how you can argue he isn't under a lot of pressure. If he can play well now, then I have little doubt that it would translate over if we were in the playoff race, for example.

I just don’t know what we’re supposed to do with a metric that is apparently so subjective that it produces two completely contradictory Top 8 rankings lists lol. These lists measure the same stat, but there’s zero overlap between them…8 unique receivers in each. It wouldn’t surprise me if Legette and/or Thielen are doing well with separation, but what you just posted seems pretty unreliable.

Seriously? When Dalton started against the Raiders and put up 300 yards and 3 TDs, this board was collectively BUZZING with excitement. Even a lot of people who get accused of being Bryce "stans" (i.e. people who were simply willing to be a bit more patient with him) were ecstatic at seeing a functional offense for once and were ready to close the book on Bryce. Who the hell was making excuses and saying it was against a bad defense? The problem with you guys is you'll take a single standalone comment made by the biggest most radical Bryce fan in the galaxy and then generalize it as "Bryce stans said _________" to be sensational rather than engage with the vast majority of people giving more rational and levelheaded pushback. I don't even think there are more than one or two people who have a positive emotional attachment to Bryce as an individual...most of the people you call "stans", are people who just generally adopt a more optimistic mindset and therefore are more defensive of our players and staff and will often give them the benefit of the doubt and root for their success (because that's in the team's best interest). I mean I'm one of those people...and I guarantee you the minute Bryce gets cut (hypothetically), I will have zero care for his career at that point. It's also ironic that you so freely call people Bryce stans but you pearl-clutch at the notion that he has haters. It's two sides of the same coin, dawg. If we're to use your standards, then the bar for being considered a "stan" is subterranean, and the bar for being considered a "hater" is apparently somewhere approaching deep space. If we were to put your post history up against the Final Boss of all Bryce stans (hell, the 10 biggest Bryce stans in Huddle history), your negative posts would outnumber their positive posts like easily 20:1. So yeah I have no clue what the criteria is at this point. Speaking of your post history...anyone can feel free to pop in there to see all the wonderful genuine praise you've been giving Bryce. I mean they don't even need to look at your post history...you showed an example of what your praise looks like in your post I'm quoting now. Let's paraphrase: he technically improved.....because he was just that awful early in the year, it's basically impossible not to improve. And yeah maybe he threw some dimes....IT'S ABOUT TIME! TOOK LONG ENOUGH!! You see how even your praise needs to be couched in jabs? It's like a compliment sandwich that gets jammed in between two slices of insults.

I mean, the consensus narrative was that Bryce specifically was too physically limited to succeed. But what you just described with a QB sucking, mood/body language being off, getting benched, then coming back and playing much better suggests the exact opposite...that his problem was mental. Unless you think he just worked out a ton and ate his Wheaties during that 5-week benching. I'm definitely encouraged but still nowhere near sold on Bryce, but I think he's proven that his arm is at least "good enough" which is such a timid position that y'all would regularly "LOLOLOL" at someone saying for the last year and a half. As Panthers fans, we should all be excited that our 1st overall QB seems to be trending upwards. Instead, y'all are giddy and circle-jerking about Aidan O'Connell putting up more yards against the Chiefs than Bryce...as if that takes anything away from his actual performance, unless you're literally just comparing box scores which is the epitome of "casual fan" analysis. You pride yourselves on being "realists", but refuse to acknowledge the reality of Bryce playing well lately, and instead do everything in your power to at least downplay or outright dismiss anything positive from him. I respect someone like @*FreeFua* who was among Bryce's most vocal critics earlier this year, but isn't shy about giving Bryce his props lately. The rest of you chirp chirp chirp in the gameday threads when Bryce makes a poor throw, but you've apparently lost your tongues after he throws a dime. Maybe it's just that good that it rendered you speechless.

Stroud had one of the best rookie QB seasons of all time and the Texans still went and traded a second round pick in the offseason for yet another very good receiver for him. Was that an indictment of Stroud, needing elite talent? Or is it simply wise for teams to invest in their young QBs? This is such an odd argument to make as a Panthers fan who had to witness the trash we gave Cam at receiver over his career here. Wouldn't you have rather us paired him with elite talent? The parallels run pretty deep because we even drafted Benjamin/Funchess in the 1st and 2nd rounds in back-to-back drafts. Except Benjamin/Funchess as a duo were much more formidable than Legette/Mingo in their first years together (yes Benjamin was injured, but I mean on paper in terms of talent + ability). I mean, as much as we clown on Funchess in here...Funchess' rookie season and Legette's projected rookie season look pretty damn similar on paper except Legette is playing ~30% more snaps than Funchess did. Imagine giving Cam Devin Funchess as his #1 WR and thinking "yep...that's good enough. He's a first overall QB, we don't need to give him elite talent at every position". I think Legette is promising and I'm excited about his potential, but I sure as hell ain't putting all my eggs in that basket.

The comparisons between Legette and McConkey need to take place around Year 3 IMO. McConkey was always going to have a wayyy easier transition to the NFL since route running is his strength, whereas Legette is more raw but with a prototypical NFL X receiver build. I would guess McConkey, even as a rookie, is already close to his ceiling. Legette hasn't even scratched the surface of his potential...we just need to see if he can get there.

I agree with everything you said, but just with the caveat that these kinds of anticipation throws require rapport, familiarity, confidence, synergy, etc. between QB and WR and Bryce has an entirely new receiving corps this year other than Thielen who just returned last game. Also, several of them are rookies who needed time to get acclimated to the NFL and develop their route running (which is extremely important for anticipation throws). So it does seem like he "finally" has become more decisive the last few games, but it was also to be expected. Not to sound like I'm putting the onus entirely on the receivers though; it's a two-way street and Bryce clearly lacked the confidence to pull the trigger early in the season.

Nobody is getting excited about "253 yards and a TD". It's always been about the eyeball test, as you've even consistently stated yourself. I'm not sure why we're playing "Box Score" now.

Worst by far apparently. https://pantherswire.usatoday.com/lists/best-and-worst-pff-grades-from-panthers-week-12-loss-to-chiefs/

Yeah by joke, you mean sarcasm...clearly meant to imply that you think this is evidence of the Giants tanking.

These consecutive posts don't seem to be very logically consistent.

Yeah I think the latter has a lot to do with it too. I don't think it's a coincidence that there are also only two o-linemen over the age of 34 sitting in free agency waiting to be signed. O-linemen is one of, if not the most physically taxing position in all of professional sports simply because of all the weight these guys gotta carry. We saw Jordan Gross retire and then immediately lose a ton of weight since he no longer had to maintain that kind of unhealthy mass. We also saw a guy like Jason Kelce retire at age 36 while still elite at his position. I think a lot of these guys are calling it quits early not because they can't compete anymore, but to avoid severe long-term health issues.

I guess we're talking different criteria then, if you're factoring in things like the Saints winning divisional titles in 2019 and 2020 as to why their franchise is in better shape today. 5 years is a damn lifetime in the NFL, and including that tells me you have a weak case that you feel the need to fluff. Characterizing us having $37 million under the cap and the Saints having $77 million over the cap in 2025 as "sucks for both teams" is interesting...that's a difference of $104 million. Ironically, the difference between us and the Patriots (who have the most cap space in 2025) is $102 million. So I guess us and the Patriots are also both in the same "fantastic cap situation" in your words. Look, I'm fine tossing the salary cap argument if you want, but let's be consistent at least. Don't say the Patriots and Raiders are in fantastic cap situations, therefore giving them the edge...and then ignore the salary cap ramifications for the Saints. Either it matters or it doesn't.

If by "reasonable" you mean "casual", then maybe. Otherwise I don't know how a reasonable fan with any understanding of the salary cap would say our prospects are worse than the Saints. They're basically a "win now" roster that's considerably devoid of talent, in salary cap hell, 4-7 on the season, and just lost to us a couple weeks ago. The biggest difference is in QB, and their QB situation isn't even good. They've got an aging below-average QB accounting for almost 20% of their salary cap next year. And that same QB might end up being a cap casualty next year if that's even possible without incurring a massive amount of dead cap.

The kinda mediocre run blocking grades (other than Icky) combined with Sanders' poor YPC show how much credit Chuba deserves. I like that Chuba is clearly the lead back, but Miles is still getting too many snaps for my taste...I'm excited for Brooks to hopefully kick him to the bench.

I guess Burrow now has the only other 300 yard 3 TD passing game this season alongside Andy. Sunday will be a showdown for the ages between two elite franchise QBs.

His last year with the Bengals was the season before Dalton was drafted.