Navy_football

Cam looked like dog shiite in the preseason his rookie year, playing with the starters. Then went on to break rookie passing records his first 2 games. There's still hope for Corral - if he can stay healthy.

At this point, Curtis might be better as a RB than a WR. He makes Ted Ginn look like Cris Carter. Dude has no idea how to track the ball in the air. Maybe he should play center field for a slow pitch softball league in the off-season.

PJ has the physical tools. He just seems to want to force throws into double and triple coverage multiple times a game. He'll be having a great game, then BAM! His inner Jake Delhomme takes the light. Unfortunately he doesn't have a young Smitty or MM to bail him out.

Ummm... better decision making than PJ?

Again, my original response wasn't to your comments. Not sure why you're so triggered and confrontational about the points I made. The argument doesn't match because you decided I was responding to you when I wasn't. I actually think we're mostly in agreement. I never even mentioned #1 pick in the draft. I mention #1 QB off the board. So where we do seem to disagree is playing to win. I think at week 6, the team SHOULD be trying to win. Doing everything they can to find the right positions and concepts for the players they have now. And I agree that means giving more guys a chance to play. To build a stronger overall team. Let's be real, they're picking a QB with the first rounder. History has shown that a stronger team with a QB picked later in the first, will have a better chance for success (super bowl) than a weak team picking the first QB off the board.

My man, I didn't even respond to you... my only point is you don't tank for a #1 QB. Build your team and culture first. That #1 QB pick crap is over freaking rated. You don't bring a 22 year old into a crap show and expect him to be your savior. I showed how it doesn't make your TEAM better. And yes, it matters if the QB won with the team that picked him vs some other team. Why in the He11 would we pick a SB winning QB for somebody else and claim that as a win? It actually shows that a strong TEAM brought in a free agent QB (that happened to be a top pick) and won a SB. If you build a good TEAM, then you can pick a QB at an average of 28 and still win a super bowl. It ain't that hard to understand unless you refuse to accept facts.

Normally it wouldn't even need to be said, but...

Can't argue that. Won't even try.

So 3 of the last 20 Super Bowls were won by the first QBs picked in their draft class. Only counting winning with the team that picked them. Otherwise they're just free agent QBs. And the Giants didn't technically have the first pick until Eli refused to play for San Diego, so they traded that pick to NY to avoid a fiasco with Eli. Eli should have gone to SD, where he likely never wins a super bowl. That's 15% with Eli. It sounds more like you'd have to be lucky to win with the first QB selected than not. Look, I'm not diminishing the first pick in the draft. But if we have to go back to 2004 and 1998 to find the last QBs that were the first QBs off the board and won a super bowl with the team that drafted them, then I think it's a reach to say that's the right move. Removing Brady from the equation, the average draft position of Super Bowl winning QBs is 28. Barely even in the first round. It's 62 if you include Brady. That's dang near 3rd round! Build your team inside out. O-line, D-line, then QB and skills positions. More first-picked QBs have failed/bust by going to bad teams than have actually become successful in the NFL, let alone won Super Bowls.

So to clarify... a team shouldn't tank to draft a rookie superstar QB. That's what we're discussing. Out of that group of superstars, only the Mannings, Stafford and Mahomes were top 10 picks. Mahomes was the 10th pick in his draft. Everyone else went to pretty good situations (including Mahomes actually) before winning a superbowl. Stafford had to go to another team (stacked) to finally win his, just as Brees. Eli won his primarily off of defense, and a big play or two when it counted. But he was no superstar QB lighting up the league. I will give you Peyton with the one in Indy. Definitely not the one "that shall not be mentioned" on a different team though. His team won in spite of him. If we're being technical, the QB with the most SB wins was the lowest drafted of the group - 6th rounder out of Michigan. QBs are given way too much credit for wins and loses. It takes a team effort to win a super bowl. You could put a good-not-great QB on a really good team, and you'd get Eli Manning level of success.

I will never agree that "putting the team in a position to lose" is the right approach. Be creative with CMC. More slot play. More PT from Foreman. More man coverage in the secondary. Stop dropping Burns into coverage so much. Take more deep shots in the passing game, and stop being so predictable on offense. Learn how to win. You don't need a superstar QB if you have a good team and coaches.

Does this mean we're finally going to use Foreman more than once a game!

Because he doesn't have McDermott calling plays or Luke to fix his mistakes pre-snap silly.

It's not just PM. He is not considered a player's coach. Every one hates him.

Not only to a Super Bowl, but made them relavent every year. We haven't had that in awhile. Definitely can't give up first rounders though. Too many holes in the roster to play that game.

Definitely not the answer for this team. Wouldn't be a good outcome for either parties involved. Well, Cam could make a couple of million and Tepper could fill a few more seats with Panther fans. But wouldn't help the wins and loses.

No sir. I beat Cam up about his inconsistent accuracy as much as anyone - never protected by me. But every other QB that we put back there only lasted a couple of games at best. The playcalling with that o-line was a disaster in the making. That hit was gonna happen eventually if he stayed here with Rivera. Rhule put more of an emphasis on o-line and finding an effective offensive playcaller. Unfortunately it hasn't worked, but the effort was there. Hopefully the team continues that trend.

Yeah, I don't agree with firing guys because of their connection with the outgoing regime. Simply evaluate their ability to do their jobs - players and coaches.

Agree with the first part. He's as dedicated to the game of football than anyone. My point was the o-line was below average most of his career. Not even gonna mention the WRs and offensive coordinator. Watt just happened to be the guy to put the icing on the cake, but Cam took a beating in that game and most others. It was bound to happen. He lasted a couple of YEARS longer than any other QB would have under those conditions.

Rivera ruined Cam by not putting a premium on protecting his franchise QB. He's finding out in Washington that franchise QBs ain't that easy to come by. When you get one, you protect him to the best of your ability.

Holding on to a lameduck HC is never a good idea. Sends the wrong signal to everyone. You at least have to show that you're trying to win. You at least have to give the facade that losing will not be tolerated. Otherwise guys are out there for the paycheck only. Doing just enough, usually in contract seasons, to get paid.

Yep! You have to fix the team culture and complimentary pieces before a brand new to the NFL quarterback is going to be successful.

Agree there's little to no chance this team goes to the playoffs - though I'll argue the division isn't all that strong right now. The offense needs to find an identity. The right players need to find time on the field in the right positions to succeed. That's how talent is developed. This team has a culture of losing. You can't continue to cultivate that culture and then expect it all to change because you drafted a 22 year old QB with no NFL experience. That DOES NOT work.

So you want fans to accept you're trying to lose the next 12 games? I don't think that's a good idea. And the whole tanking thing rarely works anyway. QB success is more dependent on the dynamics of the team that drafts them than when they're drafted. Baker Mayfield and Sam Darnold were drafted ahead of Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson. Mitch Trubisky went ahead of Mahomes and Watson.

Yeah it's too early to give up on the season. The team has enough talent to compete and go on a winning streak. Time to turn over the reigns. If nothing, it gives the fans hope.