Navy_football

@TheSpecialJuan gonna love this one

Man. Injured Cam's arm was almost as strong as Bryce's now. That's just the truth. He probably couldn't get as much distance, but he could still zip the short to medium passes just as well as Bryce. Actually better. He just never mastered the mechanics, anticipation and accuracy part. Kind of like Delhomme (to a much lesser degree), when the arm went, he couldn't rely on the other intangibles.

Right. Draft pass rushers and a safety and bring in vets. I'm thinking aging vets that could mentor young guys for a year or two. Not sure Panthers can afford to make huge splashes in FA yet. Pass rush needs two guys like you said and one ball hawk at Safety. I think Richardson would do well as an in the box type.

Agree with most of the points you just made. But that wasn't the discussion. Cam was an icon and a whole mood in the NFL. No arguments there. The discussion was: who had the better rookie offense, personnel wise? That was the only point Ice was making, and that's the only point I'm making here. But I will say, offensively that is the best roster this team has had since then. Yeah the defense wasn't good though. Beason and Davis both were injured early in the season if I remember correctly. But they did have better edge rushers and DBs. I don't even remember the DTs then so they probably were bad. But they did have McDermott leading them along with Rivera. The draft class was - Cam. That's it.

Not sure why you brought up the oline. But since you did, last year's oline had OGs that were 4 or 5 deep on the depth chart. Those guys are purely practice team scout players that should NEVER see the field in a real game. Ever. And they started. For most of the season. In my opinion, that was the biggest factor in the Panthers and Bryce Young's horrible year last season. Next are the receivers. Other than Thielen, who else is doing anything in the NFL on their new teams? That was a bad unit. A really bad one. And if we're being completely honest, Bryce passed for more yards against Tampa and the Chiefs than he did against the Falcons part 2. Both are playoff teams. But do agree about that 2014 oline. Cam drug them kicking and screaming into the playoffs. That oline was truly dangerous for a QB. Thankfully that wasn't his rookie year oline. Look, Cam Newton is the best QB and arguably the best player this team has ever had. Nobody in their right mind would argue that Bryce Young holds a friggin candle to him right now. He's not even in the same discussion as Cam the football player. But Bryce has shown areas in his passing game that are better than Cam. Almost everything other than arm strength and football IQ. But the latter takes time to develop. Cam had the it factor and an extraordinary will to win. That was one of his super powers. Being a pure passer was not.

I agree. But just want to say that Bryce's oline isn't necessarily better than Cam's rookie oline. Better than the crap in 2014? Of course. That was comparable to last year's line. Immediate pressure from inside and outside. But honestly it shouldn't be close. Bryce should beat him as a pure passer. He better beat him as a pure passer, because Cam was so much more than that. He's one of the best dual threat QBs in NFL history. Like top 3. He's one of the best short yardage backs to ever play - QB, TB or FB.

Hahaha... Better arm? Heck no. Not even close. Cam had a damn Mk 45 on his right shoulder. Better anticipation? Better touch? Better accuracy? The last 10 games, yep. We all complained about that Cam's entire career. Remember how we thought he finally improved so much in those areas under Norv Turner?

Come on frank. That's not what he posted. So where is the 2023 Panthers better than the 2011 Panthers? And Greg wasn't even remotely Cam's favorite target in 2011. He was probably 4th or 5th down the list. Now, I 100% believe Cam would have done better with last year's team than Bryce Young. Cam and maybe Lamar are the only rookies that could have done anything with that team. But, he wouldn't have been OROY, and he wouldn't have broken so many records. Except maybe the rushing TDs record for a QB. He may have still broken that. From oline, to receiving targets, to running backs, to OC, to HC, to even owner - Cam had a much better rookie situation than Bryce Young and it's really not close.

Yep. Eye test. Cam had a lot more to work with. A lot more. Makes everything easier. Even Cam acknowledged this when discussing Bryce Young.

Need to address pass rusher and safety in FA as well as draft. Can't expect rookies to come in and have an immediate impact. Having Derrick Brown back will help a lot, but another defense like last year is not acceptable.

Not impressed by that guy. I'd rather get Horvath from Navy as an UDFA. Yes I'm biased.

That's a fair and conservative viewpoint. But this is the worst defense in the history of the NFL. And it's only slightly worse than last season. That is a major factor.

This so much. Gotta stop drafting potential based on athleticism. Need an edge that will be consistently tough against the run and consistently pressure the QB. Rather have that guy than a 14 sack guy that disappears for 9/10 of every game. Need football players. Not crossfit champions.

Y'all gone get me. I know. But Bryce is a better passer/ game manager than Cam ever was - at least how he's playing now or in the last 10 games. Cam was a big play guy. His size and physical dominance allowed him to take chances most QBs could never pull off. Bryce is a game manager with some sick moves in the open field. He plays within himself. The similarities, as of late, is the swag. Cam is larger than life, figuratively and literally, on and off the field. Bryce is a Reaper on the field and Clark Kent off.

There are too many guys avaliable that are just as talented, but maybe not as athletic. Could possibly get that guy in the 3rd in this draft. No need to reach for any defensive players in this draft. Just let it come to you. If anything, trade back and accumulate picks.

He has to be extended. No brainer. But I would likely wait on this one. If he has another injury plagued year, then there's leverage to pay him less. If not, it probably won't have much impact. Unless of course he goes out and makes All Pro. But that's a good thing.

Savion Williams or Jimmy Horn Jr too. I think Luther Burden will go too high, but he's the pinnacle type.

I honestly don't think they NEED another #1 type (X), just a YAC type WR. That's a 3rd round or later pick in the draft. Also starting to come around to Miles as the backup. I think Canales is figuring out how to use him. It took so long because he's injured so often, which is the biggest concern I have with him. Maybe take a flyer on a 4th or 5th rounder in such a deep RB draft. Coker is very good at what they ask him to do. Very good. XL just needs to become more consistent with catching the ball. JT just needs to continue to develop normally. He's gonna be special. A just think a smaller, twitched up guy is needed at WR. I think he needs to be more quick than fast, and naturally elusive. Sort of like a Bryce Young at WR.

I agree with your viewpoint. I don't think they would have given him much of a chance this year. The plan was likely to let him sit a year and get him going next season. This team is known for lucking into the right decisions. Luke was an outside LB until Beason was injured. Almost trading a 1st for Clausen would have cost us Cam. Josh Norman finally getting on the field just in time in 2015. Etc.

Generally agree. But it really wasn't a problem last year either when oline play was particularly poor.

Yep. And very deep too. We're talking rounds 5-6 that could be legit contributors.

I think they already have. Just need to keep developing. We're not just talking about young WRs. We're talking about rookies.

I'd add in backup RB. Otherwise, Miles is the best option there but I fear he could be a cap casualty. Of course they could get by with just a guy like Blackshear and Boone, but another playmaking receiving RB would lowkey add another receiving threat without adding an actual receiver or TE. Canales likes to incorporate RBs into the passing game but that just isn't really Chuba's forte.

Passes batted down. Can't see over the middle. Extensive injuries All issues with Bryce being too small. Did I miss anything?

But not quite Stoic Ron either.