Navy_football

Darnold is definitely more of a gun slinger. I wish Bryce had some of that. Or at least attempt more deep passes instead of settling for the shorter routes. He took more shots in college. Hopefully we get to consistently see that version of him at some point. I was responding to your post that Bryce took a 6-6 Wilkes team and made them historically bad. The o-line was different in 2023 due to injuries. The best WR was gone - the only good one they had. The coaching philosophy and game plan was different. The defense was different and a lot worse. Completely different situations. Bryce Young could have had success in that 2022 system with those players too. I mean Darnold threw for less than 200 yards a game in a much better situation than rookie Bryce. They won a game that he passed for 43 yards and 2 picks. FYI, Baker beat out Darnold in training camp. Darnold was injured and PJ came in as the backup. They ended up demoting Baker to the scout team as a defensive lineman before trading him. Maybe they released him, can't remember. PJ filled the gap between Baker and Darnold returning from injury. Either way, Wilkes absolutely took the games out of the QBs hands and relied on clock control offense and bend but don't break defense. Canales definitely leaned on a hot run game this year, but he never took the ball out of BYs hands. He gave him a ton of RZ and 3rd/4th down opportunities.

Do you really want the details of a rich, 80 years old's sexual harassment case in the work place? He wouldn't have kept doing it if they all said no. Let that sink in.

I don't think the details will ever come out. Not completely. It would make guys look like scum and/or incompetent. The NFL is a good ol boy league that takes care of their own.

Really think that whole "hunger games" thing did him in. He couldn't control his staff, lost the locker room, and had different coaches giving their rookie QB conflicting instructions. And wasn't there a mole that was reporting everything to Tepper? It was bad. Real bad. He had to go.

Talk about revisionist history... Totally different situations. Did you forget that Wilkes won by playing sound defense and largely taking the ball out of the QBs hand? Donta Foreman pulled a Rico and ran over every team we played. We had an o-line of top tier run blockers, bottom tier pass blockers. We beat the Saints the last game 10-7. Darnold went 5/15 for 43 yards and 2 interceptions - and we won! Even rookie Bryce could have done that. Then all the centers and guards got hurt in 2023 and we had guys coming in off the street starting that had no business doing so. I'd bet alot of them never played another down in the NFL. Had scrubs coming in on Tuesday and starting on Sunday.

That's not true. I've seen him beat linebackers to the goal line and first down marker. Also seen him make LBs and DBs miss in the open field. He'd be a legit running threat if he was better at holding onto the ball. Those fumbles...

Huh? He isn't even a pure pocket passer. Actually may be better off schedule than on. Definitely more exciting out of the pocket. Could be height challenges - most likely. But he's also pretty elusive for a QB. No QB can play with immediate pressure up the middle. None. Ever. But I do agree that Dan overcompensated. That much on OGs is not wise. Particularly for a QB like Bryce that wants to escape the pocket.

And get them actual good WRs first, because you can judge a QB on numbers when he has bad to ok receivers. If he falls after that, then no contract.

Disagree. They weren't propping up the QB by improving the OG position coming off what we saw in 2023. They were addressing an obviously horrible position group that didn't allow them to even run the offense. Even drafting XL was an attempt to address an obviously horrible position group. Drafting Brooks was to address a position that consisted of Chuba Hubbard only. And we know catching has always been his Achilles heel. They were improving what they thought were the biggest weaknesses on the team. Who knew Derrick Brown would get injured in the first game of the season and the entire defense would fall apart. And no one was coming in to Carolina and making them respectable those first 2 seasons. QB isn't played in a vacuum. That's why Brady left the Patriots and went to Tampa to win a Super Bowl. His coach was starting to give him the Cam treatment.

Football is the ultimate team sport. No sport is more dependent on others for your success - including coaching. I don't know if Bryce is the guy, but I do know this has been a very bad team all around since he got here. One of the worst o-lines and coaching staffs I've ever seen his rookie year. One of the worst defenses and receiving groups (including TEs) I've ever seen his 2nd season - with a rookie HC and OC. An improving WR group his 3rd season mostly due to a rookie. The only other WR of note didn't really play well until after the 10th game of the season due to injury. Still no receiving TE to speak of. And lost games because of the worst pass rush in the NFL. And the only speed he's ever had on the field was DJ Chark. A washed up DJ Chark that played here one year and has had 31 yards receiving since leaving. Carolina had no business moving up for a QB in 2023. They weren't ready. Especially if it meant trading your only good WR to do it. Now finally there's potential on defense. Potential on o-line. Potential at WR, including some actual speed in a game where speed kills. If BY falls on his face this season, then he has to own it. Situation may not be perfect, but it's at least NFL average across the board. I won't beat him up for being bad in bad situations on a bad team. But a 4th year QB has to be able to control the offense and make players/coaches right. The team looks good enough on paper to show what he can do now.

So Jameson Williams and John Metchie were elite talents but Egbuka, Marvin Harrison, Njigba and Cade Stover weren't? Bryce had Jermaine Burton, Jacorey Brooks and Kobe Prentice that last season. A 3rd rounder and 2 UDFAs.

Yeah, but we've seen him do it. Just not often. I think that's the reason for the taller WRs. Would likely be a problem finding someone like Jimmy Horn in the mess.

That's surprising. Most young QBs are more at ease throwing between the hashes. I think the real question is why. Is it because he can't see over the middle? Or is it because we lack TEs and slots to be consistently effective there?

My biggest problem with Bryce is his reluctance to throw deep. You have to take shots every game to keep defenses honest. Otherwise they just jump on the underneath stuff all day. Now if I recall correctly he did take a deep shot to TMac in the Seattle game and he dropped it trying a one hand catch. No agenda. Just saying. Regardless, 54 yards passing in a game is pretty friggin abysmal! But you can't believe that's all on the QB. That's likely a failure in a lot of areas.

Or... maybe... Bryce isn't as bad as YOU think he is. You don't watch the film knowing the plays and what everyone is supposed to be doing. How do you know someone didn't run the wrong route? Or get proper depth? Or read the hot? You don't. SO WEIRD to constantly be down on your QB. Even when he plays well, there's a but. I guarantee you the Panthers will move on from Bryce Young if they don't think he can win a Super Bowl. As they should. But I'll trust the coach and GM with years of inside NFL experience.

Seems they are looking for mobile QBs like they said they were. Vice looking for guys that can't challenge Bryce Young. Such a weird take.

Didn't Dave bench Bryce after his first 2 games? Am I missing something? Why do you think Bryce is being coddled or isn't being challenged by Dave and Dan? Serious question. I think Dave was completely out on Bryce when he benched him. The chances of him coming back after that was very slim. He only got back in because of a freak injury from a car accident. Then he absolutely won that position back. It wasn't given to him at that point. He earned it with his play. And please know that Dave did not bench Bryce without getting agreement from Morgan and Tepper. Everyone was ready to go to plan B.

I think it's short sighted to judge a QB or HC in a vacuum. They both need good players to be successful. That's the GM's role. And he's young in his role too. His general experience in the league gives him a bit of an advantage/perspective that everyone doesn't have. But he still has to perfect his role as a GM. But whether they're good or not, they are young in their roles. That is the point I was making. Could they be better at what they do? Of course. But it's hard to have early success when you have so many major areas still figuring out how to do their jobs at the same time. Asking a QB to pass for 4000 yards when neither of his 2 best WRs have played a full season is a tall task. Asking a HC to be an effective HC while he's calling plays when he's only done it for 3 years, and he has a young roster is a tall ask. Especially with a roster with so many holes and lack of talent. But that young label is definitely coming to its end. It's about time to start showing major improvements on offense, defense and coaching. Dan has had 3 drafts/offseasons to improve the roster. Dave has had 2 training camps. Bryce has had 3 seasons, though that first season was a pretty tough situation for anyone to learn, let alone have success. The QB is on the hotseat. Mostly because it's pay up or shut up time. He's ran out of time. Doesn't matter if he has reasons or not. Not getting into the other stuff. Too many layers to pull back.

I guess so. Don't think I was involved with previous discussions. Tepper is one of the newest owners in the NFL. Dan is going into his 3rd season as a GM - ever. Dave is going into his 3rd season as a HC - ever. Before becoming a HC, he was an OC/playcaller for one season total. Idzik is about to go into his 1st year as a play caller - ever. WRs are rookies, sophomores and 3rd year guys - though the experienced 3rd year guys are XL and Coker (who has missed a ton of games). TEs are guys going into their 2nd and 3rd seasons, and Tommy Tremble - though Sanders has missed a ton of games. QB has played 3 years. Chuba is an experienced RB, but Brooks and Etienne have taken very little snaps at the position. O-line is more experienced vets with some talent - which is HUGE. Need them to stay healthy. I mean the offense is very young in every aspect except O-line. You see it differently?

I can see 9 wins. Not confident about any more than that. This season is again about development. Still a young team all around - players, coaches, GM and owner. Everyone is still finding their way. But they all do seem to be learning and getting better.

Going all out for a QB in 2023 was an incredibly dumb move. It didn't matter who they drafted, he was going to fail here. Adam Thielen as your best pass catcher for 2 of 3 seasons is a recipe for disaster. No explosive RBs, WRs or TEs in any of his seasons. And an o-line that needed league leading cap just get to a little above average. BY has been an F if judging by all 3 seasons. No doubt about it. 2023 was so bad, it brings down every year since. But by year I would give an F- (if that's even a thing) for 2023. C- for 2024. C for 2025. Honestly I think a little more speed on the team serves him well. Remember his rookie season, he was overthrowing Mingo and Marshal whenever he went deep early in the play. And he was used to smaller but faster guys at Alabama. He seemed to lose confidence after that and turned into a dink and dunker. Well that and the o-line getting him killed if he held the ball too long. We'll see if he continues to trend in the right direction. There's at least a glimmer of hope now.

With some weapons finally.

Some of those reach blocks are crazy! Like high high level.

Awww! You really do care.

Man I hope ICE ain't there