SetfreexX

No one's saying NOT to take a swing, in your own example you say, "it means you simply have to buy the lotto ticket and keep scratching until one hits"... So I pose this....how do you keep getting lotto tickets without future 1st rounders....? The point is that the bust rate is so high, it makes VERY LITTLE sense to mortgage multiple 1sts for a QB. There's no generational QB in this class. Not one that most folks would agree on, there's a couple "good ones" and a couple "boom or bust" ones. None worth multiple firsts.

I'm not saying to draft one in those rounds, I'm specifically referring to giving up multiple firsts vs taking the QB that is available at 9. Same way we should've taken Fields at 8.

A 45 to 50% success rate on 1st round QBs is not a smart bet. Who was the last QB that got drafted via a trade up ransom that worked out long term... Wentz, Lance are the two most recent off the top of my head that teams jumped into the top 3 for. Who else? I believe history is on the side of taking who is available versus mortgaging multiple firsts.

We only have 7 picks - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5 The extra 5th from SF is in 2024. The seven picks we have for 2023 as of today is the same number of total picks we'd normally have. The good thing is we can double up in rounds 2 & 3 this year if we're able to sit tight and get a guy like AR15 at no. 9.

Norv was the best OC we'd had, and had Cam on pace for career best numbers in completion percentage -- people forget, we were 6-2 and this was with a LT off the damn street. I appreciate the time Ron spent here, but I cannot forgive the fact that we IGNORED outfitting a generational talent at QB with the most effective skill players / OL to maximize his talent. I think the issue with defensive minded coaches is that even WITH a talent like Cam, they THINK I need the best defense I can field and my QB is good enough. When to me it's yes you need a good defense, but when you have THAT at QB, you need to field a GREAT offense. Not just a GREAT QB.

If you go back and watch Wilks' post game, he actually advises that it was 2 man under, which means help was supposed to be over the top in regard to AT LEAST one of those. This was in response to the CJ Henderson one.

Biting the bullet doesn't mean trading three first round picks either. I think we should see how the combine / pro-days / etc. begin to align. I think we will have AR or Stroud there at #9. HOU and IND seem to be the initial threats. Bryce & Stroud, or Bryce and Levis are likely the combo for first two QB's taken. After free agency it will show us who else is serious about a draft QB.

Wilks did that already

How do you win big games regularly without a ''big game'' QB. Name a team that wins big games regularly and consistently without one of the better QBs... Literally we were working with some of the worst options. What kind of unrealistic expectations did you guys have for Baker, or Sam...? I mean damn, he went .500 with essentially no QB, and a limited defense.

Andy Reid or not, the coach he cut his teeth under was Rivera. He was fired in PHI... That's not coaching tree success, that came here in CAR and most of the talk about him getting HC considerations was after a few years here. Had nothing to do with ''Andy Reid'' ties.

So you're unfamiliar with Ron's success in San Diego and Chicago as the DC, or early in McD career when Ron had to handle play calling - https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/01/17/sean-mcdermott-lands-on-his-feet-in-carolina/ Either y'all young or just don't care to keep up with how things actually happened here over the years. Rivera groomed McD and helped him become who he is as a coach. You can't take that away because "Ron was too conservative".

Those guys are taken, in MIA if you have Hill / Waddle / Gisecki / theose HBs / Armstead and that OL, plus that defense I'd wonder about the coach not to mention a top pick at QB. Daboll, furthest thing from young, was a proven NFL Coordinator was not a ''young up and coming OC'' -- inherited Andrew Thomas, and they draft the tackle from ALA who's name escapes me atm, and two picks before him got Thibodeaux. He also had a lot to work with and is closer to my alternates of -- Reich / Caldwell than that of they young, unproven OC's. Taylor inherited the #1 overall QB in one of the few occurrences where it worked out. __________________________________ You're going to need to do a little better than that. What are those coaches doing in 2022 with what we had to work with. That would be the question I'd ask myself in your shoes. Not faulting them you coach what you get, but are any of them doing more with less is a better question.

Did McDermott do this, also Ken Dorsey OC for HC interview...will he also do this since it's ''who he been with and learned from''? Or does being an OC absolve his from this blanket comparison...why isn't McD Rivera 2.0, he was the first Rivera tree hire....

What other coaches....I already said I'd be on board with a proven NFL coach (Reich / Caldwell / Wilks) of the young up and comers who's going to come in and have players respect day one? Dorsey might be the only one due to his time here, would he be a Rivera re-tread since he was on that staff, or since he eventually became an OC would he be ''an outside the box'' modern NFL guy who goes for 4th and short all the time, and is brash, etc. Also Wilks is not Rivera, anyone with eyes / football acumen could see there was only ONE way for this team to win games in 2022 with this roster. This years plan doesn't' apply to 2023. Maybe some should consider that.

History also says these inexperienced OC's will fail or succeed the same way Wilks could fail or succeed. The ultimate question is what makes you or anyone think a 1-3 year OC is a stronger option...what is the reasoning other than the ''the offensive guys wouldn't be conservative''. Steichen was the OC last in in PHI too, people want him now for two reasons: 1) Philly added a legit WR #1, and has had one of the BEST OLs the last few years 2) Philly won at a high clip this year The two options above are possible because: 1) QB on a rookie deal that is ''good'' 2) One of the best defenses in the league ___________________________________________________ No one was wanting Dorsey or Steichen back in 2020, they are the flavors of the month now, and if those teams didn't have a combination of - Coach / QB / really good roster most folks wouldn't even know who they are. Other than coach offense what would you say these inexperienced OC's would do better as a HC?

From someone you all may respect more than me behind a keyboard.

So when nine are from a team not of his making, not of his choosing, you hang all nine simply on him ''not being quality enough'' when he just took a 1-4 team to 7 and 10.... I'd say that's some damn good coaching considering the gaps we have on the roster, and no QB.

Then who's the hire that gets you excited, what does ''x'' candidate bring that warrants the excitement. NFL coaching staffs are an exercise in nepotism, always has been a good ole' boys / my guys kind of operation. That's not going to change with a new coach, Steichen will pull from PHI's staff / Dorsey from BUF and possibly some former Panthers guys elsewhere / Moore would bring guys from DAL, and maybe even some collegiate contacts he's maintained, same for Reich / Caldwell both former Colts coaches. The only that would really changes is tied to if the coach is an Off minded guy versus Def, and most comments in here simply ''want'' an Off minded guy, but no real preference has been provided, and no real record of success for any of them has been referenced, which I covered in the fact that I'd like Reich or Caldwell.

How can we say Wilks is familiar, to Ron, or Fox until he actually has a QB / Staff to judge him in full by? That's why I think it should be him, these new guys bring little experience if any even in their area of expertise (1-3 years of OC experience) and never led a team, and on the other hand Wilks has a lot of NFL experience which is why I think he was able to do what he did this year, which to me earned a look moving forward. For all the respect Josh McDaniels received as an OC, look what he's done in DEN / OAK. Do we really thing a McVay, or Shanahan is to be found in Steichen / Moore / Dorsey? That's all I'm saying.

I wonder how many other NFL teams lost 3 games or more by double digits SEA - 3 double digit losses NYG - 3 double digit losses MIN - 5 double digit losses MIA - 4 double digit losses _______________________________________________ Here are four playoff teams that were WC / Division winner (MIN) -- the division winner has the same amount as us under Wilks... The difference all those teams have is they have a competent quarterback. Off or Def minded or not, it doesn't matter if you don't have a quarterback. You'd think and ''offensive'' minded guy wouldn't lose by double digits, the coach in MIA he's such a brilliant offensive mind that it doesn't matter if Tua or Teddy B are playing, offensive mind will over come the absence of a viable quarterback. And to some degree I say that with sarcasm as like I mentioned, you have to have a quarterback to score, the fact we only had three with Wilks and a QB carousel says a lot about the job he did here with a skeleton staff / post firing some Rhule left overs (Cooper / Snow). What's the next goalpost we want to move?

So you're saying McD is the only defensive minded coach capable of learning...and that you ACTUALLY need a QB to not lean towards being conservative when trying to win games because you are at a disadvantage.... Man I wonder what I've been trying to explain this whole time....*checks notes* Damn, that's exactly what I've been saying, the primary issue isn't outright the coach now that Rhule is gone, it's the absence of 1) A legit NFL QB, and 2) A legit NFL OC / mind on the staff in general.

The other bars provided were limited at best...and without context. If it's derailed its derailed by those with no intent to have an open conversation about it versus simply dismissing the notion like has been done by many, or simply, ''not making it past the title'' which is why those folks were categorized and I even included ''in jest'' as to not seriously demean, belittle, or provoke. It seems that effort may have been lost in the effort to respond as quick as possible to ''call me out''.

So an outright unrealistic expectation... Versus taking a team out of the gutter and in position to compete for the playoffs, you play who you play. It was us and TB, ATL wasn't getting in, and neither was NO down the stretch. It was a two team race in Week 17, so from 1-4 to that is a resurrection; and honestly finishing .500 could also be considered an unrealistic expectation as no one saw that coming either.

HC Candidates Linked to Panthers: Sean Payton Frank Reich Jim Caldwell Kellen Moore - Been an OC for 3 years iirc Ken Dorsey - First year OC in BUF, been a QB Coach for several Shane Steichen - Been an OC with LAC / PHI the past three years Demeco Ryans - Turned down opps Ben Johnson - Staying with DET ____________________________________________________ These are who come to mind off the top of my head, Payton, Reich, Caldwell I could all see being better than Rivera, I have also said I'm good with two of the three (would prefer not to lose draft capital to hire a coach) Of the three young OCs up and coming who is getting you into the playoffs, and what makes you feel that way, what can you base it on that is tangible. Who will be their DCs based on what's available, etc.

I do it for those that pay attention, it's not like I think he's the next great head coach, but I believe he's better for the ''Panthers'' than an up and comer with one year of OC experience, and no history at all. If he had not had the interim time it would be easier to dismiss him if you just look at the ARI situation without context. But that isn't the case. I'm fully aware most of the guys against it fall into one of a couple categories: Didn't want Cam PTSD from Rivera's conservatism even though it led to a lot of success / even now in WAS where they have more playoff appearances than us since he was fired with no QB to this day Ford F-150 ________________________________________________________________________ Some of that I say in jest, I want a better offense like everyone here, I think you can still keep Wilks' leadership by also hiring a strong OC -- I'm 100% ok with poaching a SF / LAR offensive assistant to add as an OC over McAdoo. I think what most of the folks that post that they are against this, don't seem to talk about ''WHO'' the hire should be....? I also said if we go the offensive route - Reich / Caldwell are my choices over ''insert young OC''. Leadership, and experience are what we presently need at the HC spot in my opinion Wilks, Reich, Caldwell could all provide that. This was never set up as a Wilks or bust post, just ''why'' I think he makes the most sense based off this past season along with projecting a better roster, with a QB worth a damn moving forward.