SetfreexX

I posted this as a response then thought, it may also be thread worthy based on the information. _______________________________________________________________________________________________ So long as there is a plan of succession for when high paid members of the team begin to age out, drafting is still critical which is why the accumulation of picks was emphasized, we went from 6 to 11 picks in this past draft. And for all the concern about the picks we traded in 22' - 2nd for Darnold, and a 3rd for Henderson, we still have 5 picks, so to me we are likely planning to increase that total via trading back at some points. Not to mention if we qualify for any comp picks. The issue with Rivera / Hurney / Gettleman / Hurney is that as the team got OLD, there were no young players who had been groomed to assume the roles of Olsen, Norman, Johnson, Davis, Coleman etc. Our drafts over that timeframe aside from the a few picks -- CMC / Moton / Jackson / Samuel & Bradberry (who left in FA) -- were all guys that didn't see a 2nd contract, or in some cases survive their rookie or sophomore seasons -- Worley / Sanchez / Butler / Grier / KB / Funchess / Gualden & Daeshon Hall were 3rd's / Miller / Scarlett / Little 2nd round bust / Artis-Payne Total Picks per Draft -- https://www.panthers.com/history/draft 2011 - 8 (Marty) 2012 - 8 (Marty) 2013 - 5 (Gettleman) 2014 - 6 (Gettleman) 2015 - 5 (Gettleman) 2016 - 5 (Gettleman) 2017 - 7 (Gettleman) 2018 - 8 (Marty) 2019 -7 (Marty) 2020 - 7 (Marty) 2021 - 11 (Fitterer) Average Picks Per Draft / Per GM Since 2011 Marty - 7.5 Gettleman - 5.6 Fitterer - 11 ___________________________________________________________________ Obviously maintaining double digits is unlikely, however with the crap shoot that the draft CAN be after the first two, and sometimes 3rd round, common sense would say to try to hedge the odds in your favor by accumulating more picks. This way you have more chances to hit on day 2 & 3, and can build some roster depth versus always relying on JAG FA's and UDFA's as we did so often under DG. It's quite stunning when you see how few new players we added during the PRIMES of two HOF caliber talents in Luke, and Cam. We completely squandered that time under Gettleman with his ''5th'' draft being his best. Only Shaq (2015), CMC, Samuel, & Moton (2017) are left / viable NFL players; that's 4 out of 28 total selections, that IS CRAZY!

So long as there is a plan of succession for when high paid members of the team begin to age out, drafting is still critical which is why the accumulation of picks was emphasized, we went from 6 to 11 picks in this past draft. And for all the concern about the picks we traded in 22' - 2nd for Darnold, and a 3rd for Henderson, we still have 5 picks, so to me we are likely planning to increase that total via trading back at some points. Not to mention if we qualify for any comp picks. The issue with Rivera / Hurney / Gettleman / Hurney is that as the team got OLD, there were no young players who had been groomed to assume the roles of Olsen, Norman, Johnson, Davis, Coleman etc. Our drafts over that timeframe aside from the a few picks -- CMC / Moton / Jackson / Samuel & Bradberry (who left in FA) -- were all guys that didn't see a 2nd contract, or in some cases survive their rookie or sophomore seasons -- Worley / Sanchez / Butler / Grier / KB / Funchess / Gualden & Daeshon Hall were 3rd's / Miller / Scarlett / Little 2nd round bust / Artis-Payne Total Picks per Draft -- https://www.panthers.com/history/draft 2011 - 8 (Marty) 2012 - 8 (Marty) 2013 - 5 (Gettleman) 2014 - 6 (Gettleman) 2015 - 5 (Gettleman) 2016 - 5 (Gettleman) 2017 - 7 (Gettleman) 2018 - 8 (Marty) 2019 -7 (Marty) 2020 - 7 (Marty) 2021 - 11 (Fitterer) Average Picks Per Draft / Per GM Since 2011 Marty - 7.5 Gettleman - 5.6 Fitterer - 11 ___________________________________________________________________ Obviously maintaining double digits is unlikely, however with the crap shoot that the draft CAN be after the first two, and sometimes 3rd round, common sense would say to try to hedge the odds in your favor by accumulating more picks. This way you have more chances to hit on day 2 & 3, and can build some roster depth versus always relying on JAG FA's and UDFA's as we did so often under DG. It's quite stunning when you see how few new players we added during the PRIMES of two HOF caliber talents in Luke, and Cam. We completely squandered that time under Gettleman with his ''5th'' draft being his best. Only Shaq (2015), CMC, Samuel, & Moton (2017) are left / viable NFL players; that's 4 out of 28 total selections, that IS CRAZY!

3-4 Base DL - Jones / Brown / Fox -- Reserves - Gross-Matos / Nixon / Roy Edge - Reddick / Burns -- Reserves - Luvu / Haynes ILB - Thompson / Carter Jr -- Reserves - Johnston / Stanford / Martin (just promoted) CB - Gilmore / Jackson / Bouye / Henderson -- Reserves - Melvin / Taylor / STO / Horn on IR S - Burris / Chinn -- Reserves - Chandler / Franklin _______________________________________________________________________________________________________ It is absolutely amazing the transformation of this defense's personnel in really just a year as we are just a quarter into the 2nd year. Right now the gaps are LB'er depth and safety depth though Hartsfield is on IR if memory serves. I don't recall if he was slated as ''season ending'' I just remember ''surgery''. Either way with all the concerns about the corner position especially heading into the off-season, I am more than impressed with the work done in FA (Bouye), the draft (Horn / Taylor) and via trade (Henderson / Gilmore). It is a complete flip from -- Douglas / Apple / Pride (who is on IR) / Elder So yeah, pinch me!

Smith isn't eligible until after 4pm est today.

Leaves them to develop without pressure. Gilmore was on the PUP list, so the question is does he still have to wait until Week 6 since he was traded. I'd imagine he would need to, but if the Henderson trade didn't tell you they were serious, this Gilmore one says they're not d***** around. If Schwartz or DeCastro get healthy around mid-season and we're in it, be on the lookout with how they have attacked the roster when quality players are available.

We go from in talks with Sherman, to getting the 9th overall pick for a 3rd, then from that to getting an NFL All Pro for a 6th round pick TWO years from now! Yo this man Fitterer is on his poo!

OL woes have been forgiven

Pretty sure there were some quotes that they asked Shaq to put on more weight, I believe it was 15'ish lbs.

For all those lauding Norwell also keep in mind he was an UDFA, we've got a ''2nd round'' G, or ''3rd round'' T collecting dust. I get all the coach / team hype, but that will make fans wonder why that or those guys are sittings when the veterans look bad. So if they're not good, don't hype them up publicly and set the expectations to match, give me the ''we were excited line, but this rookie still has a lot of work ahead of him'' versus hyping up the ''grade we had on him''. For all the positives since Fitterer let's not forget the Seahawks routinely have had a poor OL, just something to think on as we sit here wondering what's next.

But they are playing! The 3rd WR is a starter in an offense that primarily features 11 personnel like we do. Gross-Matos started a lot of games once they moved on from Weatherly, so don't feed me that rotational crap. Fox was added and we have a DL rotation as many teams do. I'm aware OL is a ''starting'' position, however the CURRENT starters are playing like rotational players. There is little reason not to get Brady and Brown some live game reps for them to acclimate. Letting Brown get reps as a short yardage, or GL blocker would benefit him an dour OL. If they can trade for Henderson, and get three days of practice and he sees the field, guys who have been on the team since May should be able to find some snaps to help with their ability to ready / development. If they're not in a place to even do that, then it's back to my point that this staff can't identify OL talent. We have Erving and Elf the FA acquisitions who are struggling, and the two OL we drafted aren't ready (interpreted as ''not good enough'') to get meaningful snaps. Brown is in the 330s from the 360s, and Brady has a clip board while we have watched the vets get worse each week for a month's worth of games.

All I'm saying is... This staff is in one of two boats currently -- they either can't identify OL talent, OR they are giving the vets too much leeway. Here's why, they went out and signed Erving, and Elflein before any other free agents (OL FA pickings are slim so I can move beyond that), then they drafted a LT to play either RT or LG / RG, then passed on Trey Smith for a LS that is on IR, while selecting Brown only to RS him to this point. I understand positional flexibility, but to me that is what you need from the depth aka the 7th 8th guy, draft guys to play them in their best spots, not where they can ''fill in''. OL is one of those groups where reps / continuity is needed having guys move all over year one to me would stunt their growth versus locking in, and learning '' their natural position''. LT for Brady, and G for Brown as he has LG and RG tape available. So to me right now the decision making from the outside looking in is questionable, because if a 2nd round G or a 3rd round tackle is ''not ready'' then why did you draft them and not play them when the vets are struggling, was it to check a box? The 4th quarter versus HOU would have been a good time to let Brady take some snaps, I'm still curious to see him at LT, I don't know if he will be good, but I am curious given the athletic profile that he has. Erving looks pitiful out there, Elf is hurt, Daley's PFF grades are high but it feels like he's not playing at a high level, and at least once a game Dice is in Darnold's lap.

His foot was stepped on by you guessed it... Cam Erving.

Second rounders -- Chinn / Gross-Matos / TMJ are playing Third rounders -- Tremble / Christensen Four of the five 2nd and 3rd rounders we have are playing...

See Tahir Whitehead... No one is saying ''Riveraesque'' However, we have seen Rhule stay with at least one vet for too long, there is ground for some concern.

This is a legit inquiry for those with thoughts on the matter, I recall Brady getting some snaps a game or two ago as the 6th O-Lineman on a run and Deonte has been inactive for 4 games. The left side of the OL has regressed each week it ''feels'' like, and as ''meh'' as Elflein was playing could Daley actually be worse? I know they said Brady and the shorter arms, but he played LT over RT in college, and is the most athletic O-Lineman on the roster I think we need to see him, he can't be worse than Erving or could he Deonte per the team has lost roughly 30 pounds, and is in the 330's per a Rhule presser a few weeks back, I'm just tired of seeing our interior OL knocked off the spot and back into the pocket as our interior at is fairly light (low 300s on Elf and Dice). I'd like to see what this young man can do, and hopefully we don't wait as long as we did for Whitehead to be benched. I have no idea if these young men are ready, but I think we could use a spark, I understand wanting to and why you'd field a veteran OL with a younger QB, but PHI DL is stout as well, anchored by Cox, if the veterans can't get it done, we might need to see what the young guys can do. Options (Left to Right) Moton / Brown / Paradis / Miller / Christensen Christensen / Brown / Paradis / Miller / Moton

We are 3-1, most people didn't anticipate that start... We have -- PHI / MIN / NYG / ATL / NE -- over the next 5 weeks, if we manage 3-2 over those 5, we're sitting at 6-3 at the midway mark of the season. The last three in that five to me are very winnable, PHI and MIN may be a little tougher. If we get through that patch 6-3 or better, we probably have a shot at a Wild Card, ARI / TB 2x / BUF are as good and most would consider them better than DAL so that is likely 4 losses in the back half of the season. So as far as a shot at the playoffs the next five games are critical, we need to win at least 3.

Gutted, we still have 5 picks, and this past draft we turned 6 picks into 11. Relax.

No, the Byron Bell, Nate Chandler days were much worse.

Missed it

Tried to tell folks a few weeks back I was noticing a base switch to a 34 front. Good info here.

It's quoted that the Jaguars asked for him to be apart of the deal directly. So the OTHER team making the request doesn't equate to us ''not wanting to poo on a guy on his way out''. Was just honest commentary and transparency on the deal. It's a situation where we didn't have a choice if we wanted to secure C.J. Henderson.

Grain of salt or not the team didn't WANT to trade Dan Arnold, the Jaguars insisted on him being apart of the deal. There are plenty of sourced quotes you can look up on that. Uzomah is 6'7'' Tremble is listed in different places as 6'3 -4'', Dan Arnold is 6'6'', he actually more closely imitates Uzomah's size. I think more than anything this just ramps up the time table on Tremble's on field development, they have to be comfortable with a pairing of him and Thomas moving forward. I like everything Tremble brings to the table, I'm looking forward to more reps and accelerating his development.

THIS, I don't know if there was a lot of laundry vs PHI but I can see us being the small market undefeated team the NFL doesn't want to see outshine ''America's Team'' like there isn't a total of 32, get that bs outta here. I hope we are able to whoop that a** like we did on Thanksgiving, and just shut all them mf'ers the f*** up! I'm fired up!!!

I can't say it's the best pass rush as to me that defaults to front 4. I'd have to give that to years past, now as far as GETTING PRESSURE, this is the best we've ever seen as we remind me more of the Jets under Rex Ryan. Jaycee (once healthy) and Henderson have shutdown skill sets / potential -- so we're looking at a newer Revis / Cromartie (no I am not calling them that yet, just setting up the vision that I see developing). Then with Jackson, Bouye (under contract next year), and the depth we can match up against really anyone. Now pair in two of the FASTEST guys off the edge in Burns / Reddick, then the interior with Brown, Jones, Roy, Nixon, and additional edge depth from Luvu, Haynes, and the kid from Buffalo we can throw waves at opposing teams all game. Not to mention we bring the ILB's, and the Safeties, and corners off the edge to blitz as well, if you go back and watch you'll see Jaycee in the slot blitzing vs NO, and HOU. You can also go back to Henderson's time at FL and see he spent time in the slot, and also blitzed of the edge from there as well. This is BECOMING the most talented defense as a whole, we've always had a stud or two and JAGS, now we have several studs + good proven players. I'm excited to see what this becomes, it's just year 2.

Scott is a T, I don't think he's had meaningful reps at either G position. If Miller is a no go it's likely Brady that steps in.