Growl

those players weren’t acquired in free agency (except the Brady anomaly) they were acquired in blockbuster trades that saw nearly historic amounts of capital being moved, same with the Watson trade. to argue both the ideas of restraint, and age, as being red flags standing opposed to value and then to cite those example is quite the contradiction. they were also rare occurrences I might add and if you move past the flurry of the past couple seasons you’re not going to find many examples of it

literally this years free agency crop was chock full of them. “age” isn’t a red flag at the OT position, because, again, I’m not looking for a long term investment when I can routinely find a player of that caliber.

did you or did you not just endorse the notion that the panthers may win 6 games next season A plain answer would be refreshing for once instead of some ad hominem followed by an attempt to move the argument around

now the plan is to just get an elite QB in free agency everyone lol. but don’t dare suggest you can find offensive linemen that way, it’s unheard of!

of course. now to be clear, when I say good, I’m not talking about the ALL PRO TALENT that many here fixate on as a necessary component of a Championship roster, and the reasoning is simple: it isn’t necessary. the disparity in wins between a capable veteran tackle signed on a one year deal each offseason is going to win me as many games as the Joe Thomas types that so many are fixated on having. i don’t need that kind of player on my roster (as Joe Thomas proved.) what I need at that position is good enough.

I enjoy watching you dismantle your own arguments

Wow… I had never considered it in this light before. So QBs are like spinning rims and hog mollies are like engines. If only I had known. the insult to my intelligence aside-no, there is no such thing as a franchise left tackle. I am aware of what good LT play looks like, and what bad LT play looks like, and the maximum contribution it can make to a team. I don’t need to hear the announcer say a name to comprehend it, thanks. now that we’ve gotten that out of the way, the panthers lack of a second round pick is a moot point because you wouldn’t be taking a QB there anyways. you don’t wait around to find a guy there-you take the highest rated guy as soon as possible-bypassing ancillary positions to do this. Good left tackles can be found in free agency every offseason, and there’s no substantial benefit to getting them in their prime-a good rental at the position of a decent veteran player is going to add as many wins to your win total as a major financial commitment to a player coming off a rookie contract into his first deal-there is no added significance to returning a player at this position yearly. Outside the confines of free agency, we will be having this exact discussion next offseason about the four or five “generational” tackles that will be available then in the draft as well. The panthers will almost certainly not, however, have their pick of the QBs. The former is an annual occurrence, the latter is rare and very difficult to come by.

I don’t care about getting a “stud” to “anchor that o-line!” or whatever other boring cliches you’re spitting at me here. there is no additional value to having “your guy” at that spot, as opposed to having a revolving door of average veteran LT’s acquired each offseason over the course of a decade. I’m going to win the same number of games. There’s no such thing as a “franchise” left tackle, whatever that is even supposed to mean. there is such a thing as a franchise QB. There is value in having an individual at that spot in perpetuity, there is value in having a QB on a rookie contract, there is value in having him master your system, there is value in having him become the face of your city, and on and on and on and on. he isn’t going to be replaced just because there’s a “new coach” and “that’s what happens,” because that isn’t what happens. Good or promising QBs stick around, bad ones don’t. If he’s good, then the panthers will be good, and Matt rhule may stay and you may have to accept that, and if he’s bad, then I’m grateful for multiple opportunities to draft a QB and thanking my lucky stars we didn’t Build That O Line and Prepared The Roster Around The QB and worked my way out of contention for a top QB prospect. It is always better to be awful than average in the NFL. You should be much more afraid that the panthers get stuck in average with a new coach than the idea that Matt rhule might save his job.

They aren’t trading up. Clearly I’m not Matt rhules biggest supporter, but I’m not going to let my loathing for him scare me into worrying about such things or scare me off an opportunity to draft a QB just because I’m scared it might save his job.

“Guys a QB needy team is going to give us a great prospect because we’ve been so patient and deserve it!” other teams aren’t “building the roster” to “prepare for a QB,” they aren’t undervaluing the position the way people here do. they are getting that guy as they can and spending copious amounts of money and picks to support him while he is cost effective. Nobody is giving the panthers a QB next season just because that’s the moment we find it convenient to want one, if the next class is “better,” then every other team in the league knows that and there’s an 99% chance the top picks will be locked into taking those guys regardless of the cost and a 1% chance a team that is amicable to a trade will hold that spot and the panthers will have to compete against 12 other teams-and be selected from amongst them, better hope it’s not a division or conference foe!-by the team for trade. it is L-O-L worthy that people still operate under this delusion of “well we can just go get our guy when we want him.” the league doesn’t work this way, you don’t just get what you want when you decide you want it, something Dave tepper has had to choke down over and over again, and will probably have to do so a few more times. you have to take chances when the opportunity presents itself. You can’t miss your moment. The panthers did last season. They probably aren’t going to get many more chances if they keep “preparing the roster.” We’ll see if they learned their lesson.

this is a good post and something to consider, but I really don’t think teams draft a QB they don’t believe can be great. I’m not capping Pickett’s ability or whatever, but if that’s what the team believes then they should just take Willis.

what I’m saying is that Rhule has been painted as the “go get a veteran” (like Mayfield) guy from every leak we’ve heard and nugget we’ve gleaned, and if the team drafts a QB, the decision is likely revolving around the scouting axis of Fitterer/McAdoo. in conjunction with Rhule, yes, but if he hypothetically loses out on the push to acquire a veteran, then logic would follow that the primary evaluation of the prospect selected came from fitterer/mcadoo, who we’ve gathered have been more focused on acquiring a guy via the draft.

this is the other component of this if your logic is “rhule is going to get a QB to save his job” then you better hope they draft one at 6, because if not then they are giving up future draft assets for a middle of the road player to assure them pick #17 in the draft next season

Fascinating but that isn’t what I was discussing with the other poster.

yes, an improved roster. If you think Evan Neal or Ikem ekwonwu are the can’t miss generational pieces that you claim they are, then how could the roster not be improved, when combined with the other additions? unless of course they aren’t in which case there’s definitely no reason to bypass selecting a QB.

it is not in his contract to select a QB what are you talking about read what I posted

okay but the organization can’t make decisions centered around this kind of illogical hate bait with an improved roster, objective logic would dictate that they improve this season, even if only by a game or two. Maybe they implode, it could happen, but “maybe” isn’t how you make these decisions.

the panthers didn’t get a top 5 pick this season, now you want to “build the roster” and hope they get worse. top 10 isn’t nearly good enough to acquire the kind of guys you want

nothing that we’ve read has indicated that Matt rhule is the driving force behind selecting a QB, that’s just something that anti-QB people assumed because QB=Bad and Matt Rhule=Bad and so the two are lumped together rather than face the scary reality that the people in the building who want a QB are the ones who have more staying power obviously we don’t for sure know their intentions, but it seems pretty clear from what they’ve said and what they’ve done that Dave tepper and Scott fitterer are the driving forces behind a selection of a QB.

to be clear, your entire ethos to the future of this team is predicated on your absolutely certainty that the panthers will have the first overall pick in the draft next offseason?

well let’s swallow the hard to swallow pill: the panthers won’t be in range to take one of those players next season. To operate as if they will is hope at best and delusion at worst. The teams that will be in range to do so won’t be trading those picks, and certainly won’t be trading them for less than three 1’s plus (should the panthers luck into the third or fourth overall pick team being amicable to a trade because the team has an option at QB, such as Jax) once you accept this bitter truth, the question becomes…. So what are we going to do? being able to use a single selection on the draft’s top QB prospect is value that cannot be overstated. To bypass that is a horrendous waste of opportunity cost.

to do what exactly “moAr pIckZ” makes draft night fun and exciting which is most poster’s ultimate aim, but the practical reality is that when we reach the point where our stewardship of the draft has impactful consequences, a slew of JAGs or rotational pieces aren’t really contributing, and they especially aren’t doing so without a franchise QB none of this peripheral hoop jumping has any point or purpose until the team finds someone at that position “but they could be great players!” i hope not, that’s the worst case scenario. The last thing this organization needs is to luck into some great linebacker who helps carry the team to the middle of the draft and out of even the kind of opportunity they have now to acquire a QB in a “down class”

“The Panthers are also being genuine when they say there are several of these quarterbacks they like. But that depends on the when as much as the who.” also the impression I get from this article is that the panthers would like to take a QB in (and only in) a trade down scenario, which is trademark colossally poor philosophy predictably coming from the leagues worst-ran team if you think a QB is 1st round talent and have a 1st round grade on him, the idea that you’re comfortable taking him at #13 but not at #6 is brain meltingly stupid, and yet we must assume that it is sincere because if you were trying to entice a trade up, the dialogue coming out wouldn’t be “we’ll only take a QB if we can move down,” because you’re positioning yourself to negotiate from a position of weakness, without even offering up the threat of plucking a QB from the team looking to move up that may desire one

https://www.panthers.com/news/draft-debate-quarterback-makes-sense-willis-pickett-corral Let’s set aside the “debate” real quick and all agree that Matt rhules college brain probably doesn’t value this component of the draft as much as he should (the individual wielding executive personnel control given to him by the owner): ”The sixth overall pick in this year's draft will be slotted into a contract that will pay him around $30 million for four years, with the team allowed to pick up a guaranteed option for a fifth year. At a time when top quarterback salaries are eclipsing the $40 million a year mark and climbing fast, you can have the math skills of a journalism major and understand the value of finding them young.” Everything Matt rhule has indicated so far is that his draft approach is that of the average panthers redditor

and #11 is a much more reasonable spot for a guard, and #13 for a center, were gonna be dominating so much TOP these next few seasons hopefully the league changes the rules to structure playoff seeding by that kind of thing