top dawg

Et tu...of all the people who have been critical from the beginning...They're not going to allow some retread to start over Young at the beginning of the year, unless they've already decided that there's no hope. That being the case, Young won't even feel pushed. No, he needs to feel the pressure---someone who could legitimately take his job from the start of training camp.

I'll give you that. I'll still say that Young didn't do anyone any favors (not even himself).

Young was historically bad this season. I don't believe that would've been the case had we drafted another, but to be fair we'll never know (even though we know). Now how you know that a Bo Nix, Penix or Rattler would be no better Young this season, I simply don't know. I think that you're guessing at best or projecting at worse (due to suffering through Young's terrible season). I don't think I'm better than any of y'all, but I do wholeheartedly believe that the FO can do better by all of us, and not subject us to horrendous QB play by default by skipping on a more talented signal caller.

In that same vein, it is my contention that Bryce played so horribly---admitedly coaching could've been have been a part of it---that he's making the receivers look like they were playing horribly as well. People were trying to talk poo about Mingo---Mingo, a rookie. Mingo didn't look as bad as any other rookie WR trying to figure things out. And I know damned well that Chark didn't go from looking like a pro-level receiver in Jacksonville and a pro-level receiver in Detroit to Charlotte and just turn to sh¡t. I think that our receiving group suffered due to Bryce's reticence to throw the ball on time, that's if he was able to see over the line or maneuver in a manner consistent with hitting them in such a manner where they could catch the ball, but aalso hit them in a manner that could help them their productivity.

Sure, it's good to hear about player support, but at the end of the day, how much "radical change" do you need to play the game at a high level? I guess that my age is showing, but playing O-line is playing O-line (not that he was really speaking to O-line play necessarily), and we need more talent along the O-line. At the end of the day, I still believe that football is about talent acquisition and doing the things fundamental to your position better than the other guy. That goes for coaches and players. I also still believe in smash-mouth football and using the run to set up the pass and the pass to set up the run.

That's not a plan B, that's a hope and a prayer.

The 2025 draft class is looking suspect.

I can't blame you, but I can't lie to myself, I'm gonna watch it.

I would agree if I wasn't able to look at Young in a vacuum...bad mechanics, questionable power, weak-ish velocity, so-so athleticism, terrible pocket presence and awful decision-making. I'm not gonna lie, it looks like we were sold a bill of goods. Him being a rookie, to me, is his only saving grace.

I don't look as an old Band-Aid as insurance, just a backup to Nowhere. We're not going to really achieve anything awesome by letting a retread lead a team that's in the process of trying to rebuild and establish a franchise QB.

But y'all are just assuming that a high pick in 2025 is going to get it done, while skipping an ultimately more talented guy in 2024. Don't be surprised if it isn't 2026 or 27 until we draft someone that's worth a damn, and that's if we aren't in QB purgatory and likely have to spend draft capital and important players to move up again.

I can appreciate that...I really can...but if Nix is the BPA on day two or three, or Rattler is the BPA on day three, if it were up to me we'd really be doubling down on the QB position.

Bryce out there throwing off his back foot and trying to escape the pocket like Cam without the power and athleticism. He's throwing what amounts to wounded ducks and getting downed by finger tackles. And I used to criticize Cam for his decision-making...Boy I was jumping out the frying pan into the fire and just didn't know it.

Look, I know that you're probably right about an investment in a QB (hence the title), but I still don't like it.

They were train wrecks waiting to happen, and they did. Personally, I thought that the Darnold deal was awful. I also wasn't too keen on trading draft capital to get to one (and said so). Tepper talked about spending resources willy-nilly---like there was going to be a paradigm shift in regards to the way we handled dealing away draft picks once he fired Rhule. Then, what does he do? He goes out and not only spends draft capital, but throws in our most talented receiver to boot.

Why does everything have to be "freak out" with you? If course we must wait to see what they're going to do, but in the meantime I'm discussing things that I'd like them to do. Imagine that.

Personally, I wouldn't think that anyone can come in here and win immediately. More than two games though, and look better than Bryce doing it, or push him to look better doing it, would be good enough for me.

I understand, though I will say that the situations are different. For me, the only legitimate investment we've made in trying to acquire a franchise QB is Young---maybe Corral depending on your perspective. The rest weren't really investments per se, but Band-Aids. On an off note, I still wouldn't want any of those Band-Aids.

Building an offense and acquiring another prospect at QB aren't mutually exclusive. They just aren't.

And don't get me wrong @Ricky Spanish I get what You're saying, but you're essentially speaking in absolutes, like it's a sin to invest in a QB while you have a QB. I don't agree with that notion.

I disagree. You draft the BPA. If he happens to be a QB, then sobeit. You shouldn't willy-nilly skip potentially talented signal callers because you're "not a QB away." You should build as the players come. Moreover, Young arguably regressed towards the end of the season, not got better.

Even if I believe that Young can be a starter, is his ceiling that of the first overall pick? If the answer is "no," we're wasting time IMO. We're hoping that in a perfect world that we'll be able to build a team around him and drop someone else in to get the job done. That rarely works as planned.

With the hiring of Dan Morgan and Dave Canales, we have been put on notice that the priority now is to "fix" Bryce Young. Well, that begs the question, "Can Bryce Young be fixed?" Well I have another question? Considering Young's historically bad season, shouldn't we at least consider drafting another QB if one happens to fall, or even keep our minds open to some Bryce Young insurance on day three when some undeveloped talent is available? BPA shouldn't take a backseat when Young is driving the bus. Look, I get that "fixing" Young would be the absolutely best case scenario. I am skeptical it can happen based on what I've seen of his physical limitations, questionable mechanics and shockingly---and I say "shockingly" because he was billed as a processing savant---terrible decision-making. And I'd add that I have never seen a a Panthers QB with such a lack of pocket presence and a lack of self awareness about one's escape-ability from that pocket in my life. Some believe that we have to invest another entire season into "fixing" Young simply because we invested a king's ransom to move up to acquire him. I do not believe that he should be the defacto starter. I believe that he should have some legitimate competition with the caveat that it's young competition (pun not intended). If he beats out a young blood, then fine. But I hardly see it as a given, given Young's deficiencies, if the competition is real and not a dog and pony show designed for optics. I just am not ready to voluntarily hand the reins back to Bryce, I don't care how much we spent on him. He needs some competition, and we need some insurance---an extra shot of hope (or just extra shots)---after the worst season and team in franchise history. I get allowing the tank to take place naturally, and grinning and bearing 2024 to get to 2025 and all that, but I just can't cosign and accept another awful season without at least making an attempt to obtain some more draft picks and get a QB with potential to push Bryce to higher heights, or to the bench. We'd be in a better position for 2025 if that were to happen as well.

Sure, we could've hired "that bear," for example, so you're kinda stating the obvious. Neither Morgan or Canales got any interview requests anywhere else. Of course they weren't the only ones that we could get, but they were likely the best we were going to get considering the situation. Tepper's desire to fix Bryce, ergo Morgan's desire to fix Bryce, ergo Canales's desire to fix Bryce, is arguably the best thing that could happen to the Panthers moving forward...if Bryce can be fixed, which some people don't believe, or at least are highly skeptical of. That, along with the other obvious parts of this train wreck were never going to be attractive to the most attractive candidates. It was already reported that the Panthers were concerned with the optics of the situation and didn't want to look like abject idiots whom everyone was turning down. I don't necessarily believe that Morgan and Canales were our first choices at their respective positions, but I believe that both may have been the only higher profile guys with real and/or perceived talent that still makes Tepper look good, or at least look like he knows what the hell he's doing. So it was a win-win...at least for now. Realistically and optically, Tepper made lemonade out of lemons regarding these hires. Now, media and fans can't necessarily say that Tepper is doubling down on bad decisions. My thing is, we'll really find out if it was all a farce the day that we have to move on from Bryce (if that day comes of course). That's the day that we'll really learn if Tepper has learned his lesson.