stratocatter

Nah, use 9 on someone that can be introduced to the NFL game the way the people we have hired to do it, will do it. That ship has sailed with any young QB who underperformed relative to his draft position. Let’s call their heads empty vessels for the purpose of this point, we want to pour Carolina style of playing in there and not have it be arguing with something someone else put in there.

Fair enough. I do remember that being the situation this year now that you mention it. My 1st cuz is a Raven’s season ticket lifer, lives up there and uses his tickets. I should ask him what the scoop is, I bet it would be as good an answer as you could want from a non pro. Will try to remember to ask him.

Gonna say no thank you to Lamar in this situation. Lamar seems to be a mobile first type. Maybe I am not as educated on his game as I could be, but that is what I see at first glance. That isn’t a long term plan I want to get behind. But okay, he *was* MVP. So I want to hear more. Now I look at what kind of extras the team will have to include like draft picks or players. I am starting to get a little negative. Then mostly negative. Because before you get to the bottom line, there are the financial demands. The weight of which can sink the ship. I’d be hoping the Bucs or Saints ‘win’ this one.

I know history. I see history here. Over and over. Darnold did not lose that TB game for us, despite what people type. And if he did, … nah, he didn’t and that’s enough of that. Of course people can see he has issues to overcome. What I saw was progress. The guy is still only 25 years old with 5 years of NFL experience and he has been through 5 different OCs I think. Maybe he can’t overcome it but I see what I see and that is a player who showed progress last year and has the physical tools that are not that common. Did I say he is 25? Oh yeah, I see that I did. Someone is going to place a higher value on him then you and those that agree with you do, that is the one thing I would bet on in all this. If I bet. There are a lot of guys who are late bloomers. Everyone doesn’t learn at the same rate. Is this right or wrong? Rhetorical, I know the answer and so do you. Is he one of them, that Will succeed later? You have to answer that for yourself. I don’t think it is something we can know. Meaning I don’t think the flip side is something we can know either. I get bothered when people declare their opinions as truth, and are dismissive of other opinions. I have to remind myself that that is okay, some people are late bloomers and will get it eventually. Me, I think the book is still open and should be. You don’t. I am not going out to buy a Darnold jersey, just looking around and seeing people want to mortgage the future big time drafting a player that Sam would probably easily beat out in a fair competition. At this point in time. That doesn’t sound like a good idea to me.

I think Sam can play and some people are holding on to a narrative from two years ago. Go ahead and leave me a pile of poo. I know it’s coming. But as far as here, it depends on Reich and whoever is brought in to oversee the offense. What was an advantage for him last year, a year in the system, is not there now. And they are likely to have a plan to move forward with someone they are more familiar with.

So Sean Payton has a system that will help old heave and hope Wilson’s passes find the right color Jersey? That will be fun.

Hope he shines. I am all for him, think he will make a better HC than DC to tell the truth. So hope he kills it and moves up to get a real shot at having a team of his own.

I couldn't argue real hard otherwise. That was bad. I didn't feel the need to go on 4th like people wanted, that can be defended. But blowing a lead like that, and just giving it to them so easily after it already happened once, you can't defend anything about that. I don't expect perfection from humans I just expect them to learn. And even with the other bombs I still think he earned the job and would have fixed some mistakes ands made new one. I was really impressed with him. I do understand why Reich, and of the offensive others, I was probably best with him.

Checked in right on time for this. Noted, but come on. There are degrees or levels of confidence in the prospects of these prospects. I think you know this. I am not making a professional judgement on these QB prospects but I surely hope the people who are pros have a high bar for can't miss and the maturity, restraint or whatever, to say no if they don't truly measure up. I have my Rhules too, on measureables, and they are about on a par with his (but mine are free). One of mine that is not negotiable is no shrimps at qB. No fast little scatback types. i am sorry. Love Mugsy Bogues, love small dudes that do hang with the big guys but this is the NFL and it is the premiere position. No Chris Weinkes either. Guys who were two and three years older and more mature than their competition in NCAA. And I like my QBs to be passers first that's for sure. Bottom line is if the men that run things aren't doing their best to hide their excitement over a top 3 draftable type, I don't want them making the move. That's all. edit: move, means a big trade to move up.

I see all this praise for the Offense QB genius we have hired and how he can take a number one pick and coach/develop him into a star. Sounds great. If you have a can’t miss number one, and you can get him. What I have not seen is people saying what he could do for a current player that hasn’t quite caught on the the speed of the NFL game or just hasn’t put it together. Like what the Panthers have been trying to do the last two years post Bridgewater. We have any guitar players here? There is an analogy waiting to be made that applies. Or could. Formulated from the fact that a great player can take an average instrument or even a bad one and make it sound great. I used the word ‘fact’ because that absolutely is a fact. Anyone who has handed their instrument to a great player, and isn’t one themselves, knows this well. Fans may be overlooking the possibility that our best shot in the current scenario could be taken with a proverbial used Mexican Strat… in the hands of a great player. I am as sick of the reclamation bargain bin as anyone else, but the last three times we did not have a guy that could do much with them. Now we do and that is what makes it different this time around. One more time with the right people involved probably gets us somewhere, and still sitting with a 1st round pick to use on offensive weapons, defensive beef, etc. I just don’t think any of these college QBs are worth not having a first round pick for the next two or three years. A bad draft day decision there at this point would mean years of setback. Years. Who sees a can’t miss that we would have a shot at? Not me. I don’t believe there is one. So I won’t flip out all over the top Huddle style if that is the way they go.

Well, I have to say, Tepper won me over with his stupid smile. I was against him, and for good reason. From the start. But I saw how he is actually trying to be a good dude and does seem to be able to self assess, and try to learn from his mistakes. Now I have to reconcile that with the guy that thought up buying his ex boss' house and destroying it. Okay. Reconciled. He hasn't done it again.

If you have your D, you have your OL, your QB, then a RB of the highest echelon would be a great target that high in the draft. I would almost argue a TE that is elite would be better than RB but I'l concede that. If RB means that much to you, go for it. Otherwise, tend to the rest first.

The spoiled rich kid owner wanted a cool offensive doll because all the other rich kids have one. That’s it.

Respect to coach Wilks. And love for what he gave me this year. A reason to watch. Listening Tepper? I am not shading Reich he is a good coach I believe. But if only they’d have won one more.

@mr completely A Head Coach doesn’t do much coaching.

……snip…. I think Steve Wilks has through the roof potential as boss of a football team. IMO his leadership is the best ever in Panthers history (such as it is). He was just outstanding. I am okay with Reich, was always open to him. He is one of the few they could get with bona fides in training quarterbacks, he has been a head coach. Checks the boxes. But keeping Wilks as DC is something that would be fraught with potential division, that could undermine a HC. I think both guys are mature enough and smart enough to not let that be a thing between them, but it is a hot potato waiting to happen. Besides, I really think Wilks is a better HC than a DC, just eyeball and memory.

OP there are different types of 6-6. Going 6-6 with an underachieving roster is different than pulling a team out of an accelerating nose dive, pretty much against anyone’s expectations. That wasn’t mediocrity. It was closer to great. Could he do as impressive of a job if the talent was better, tne bar was higher, etc. And he had his staff and got to stand on his own foundation from the beginning? Can’t say without seeing it. I don’t expect him to be hired but people are really undervaluing the job he did.

He is a force of leadership, pair him with a poachable OC hope Fitterer is good without Rhule, and go to work. About the only argument against Wilks that many can come up with, is “they will poach a good OC”. Let’s look at that a little closer. That means you accomplished something with that guy. Something impressive enough that people want him to be their guy. Okay someone steals him. What you have then when you are interviewing/looking is “our last OC was poached, wanna be next?”. You found the first one you can find another.

I think people see glimpses in their team owner, at times, of the same guy that would buy his former boss’ house and tear it down. Like, I don’t even know why someone would do a thing like that. What is the thought process that takes you to that place?

I think Olsen is tearing it up. He’ll probably improve technically, get slicker and more polished, but he is fresh and hitting it hard. His game within the game stuff is the best thing going now. The route explanations and how things set up strategy or play design are better than I remember seeing for a while. I hope he doesn’t become irritating once the freshness wears off. I am almost there with Romo. He was fresh at first by a lot, now it’s meh.

If you guys don’t think bounty pools and the like, big hit pools, whatever you want to call them, if you don’t think everyone was doing it you are not a reasonable thinking person. And I will not much value your judgement because you are not looking at things realistically They got Caught doing it. Twice. The objection I’d have is they were busted, told to quit, but did not. Caught, warned, caught. That’s why he got the business end of the stick. Thats where I have to seriously call his judgement into question.

That would be a good get. Will need pieces. And pieces of the cap once you find them. It still has to work that way and I think they were paying Brees so much at one point that it hamstrung them elsewhere. Predicting what he would do this time is beyond my expertise though. My main reaction is anchored a bit less in Payton and more in Tepper and the big splash throw money. I will say maybe he does think Payton is the best out there available. That is defendable, he well might be.

Tepper had 5 years to get things straight but did what he did. Two years of picking out his shovel and two more years of solid digging. The night watchman is eventually given the keys, and using working man’s tools steps up and stabilizes things somewhat. As soon as he gets a shower and a good night’s rest Tepper is looking around for a shiny new shovel. This time it will be one of those high dollar Historic ReIssue shovels (they get you most of the way there, most owners say). Is Brees here? It was him not Payton. And remember all those great defenses Payton put together? Me neither. You are gonna need both and you are going to empty the cupboard or at least a couple of shelves worth before you start cooking that meal. This is the epitome of retread. Maybe Dennis Allen can come on board as DC.

My 1st cuz is a long time Ravens season ticket holder. I will ask him about it but I can say right now I do not want to pay the huge ridiculous money to one player. Especially if that player is a QB that relies on his own running ability to win.

I totally ignored your point, yes. It is not a good point and should be ignored. Or maybe the valid sensible point is in there somewhere but you are missing it. Here, I will help you. Wilks did not assemble the roster. In fact he was said to have criticized it -to Snow- as being too light to win in the NFL. I am pretty sure I read that here. But you decide that if Wilks and not Snow is to blame, that it will be the key piece of evidence of Wilks not being qualified that seals the deal, ends the argument, mic drop. And you are going to bring it in here and be seen as one of the smart crowd. Is that close? You’ll show those Wilkstards . If I have it right, the takeaway from people blaming Wilks for the D falling off is: Wilks head coached a D that Snow and Rhule constructed and it is Wilks’ fault they were poor at run stopping and poor at holding the edge, and the secondary (his specialty) fuged up assignments constantly, and and and. Because Wilks is conservative D coach and we want a McVey clone? Can’t get a McVey if Wilks is in the way so let’s take him down? How I feel about it? I am not worshipping Wilks as the only solution. Or a sure fire solution because nothing is. I definitely have a high opinion of him as a man of integrity and no BS. And a bona fide NFL guy. But he blitzed more than I wanted when running the D in 17 I guess it was. There were issues this year with the game management and a couple of the game plans. I haven’t seen what he would do about OC and the direction of the offense and team in general. So not ending the search without seeing what is out there To the conservative defense objections, they’re not hiring him for DC in the first place. We are hiring him (possibly) as HC to lead, to identify and retain. Players and coaches. To place coaching talent in the right job. To captain the ship. This is stuff he has shown he can do reasonably well I think. There are undoubtedly people who could beat him out on merit, x and o chops and there always will be. Most of them have not done the job they will come seeking. Most look great, on paper. And we know just from how things work in this world that some of them will be good, they can make the jump. Most, probably, will be failures because they can’t use their x and o skill for solving every problem and that is all they have at this point in their careers, Last thing about this coaching vacancy: when I have been faced with losing a key contributor in my job, I learned to look at it as an opportunity to improve rather than a hole to try and fill (and a tough hole at that). I want to turn it from a setback into an opportunity. So I am definitely not opposed to shooting for the moon. That still means, known quantities with known qualities. Not extrapolating untried promise to a hopeful conclusion, but expanding in the ‘known for a fact to be good’ direction. Whether that is Wilks or another ‘known’, that is what I think we need. Tepper just does not need to follow one speculative blunder with a second. He can check a lot of boxes with a Wilks hire for maybe a three year rollover type contract dependent on results.