TheMaulClaw

This is true but they should not be giving Brees all the credit for what Payton did either.

Doesn't change the fact that the Chargers lost faith in Brees whether it was performance based or injury based. It is still safe to say that Brees went on to have a long healthy career. He didn't miss many games. Payton managed that perfectly.

So I believe I can answer this partly. Remember when we had Cam? Remember how we didn't protect Cam? Remember that bad Oline? Remember how our offense was based around Cam's ability to withstand punishment? Ron Rivera did that. Remember Brees early in his career? Couldn't pass a physical. Small and undersized player without much speed. A former 1st round pick who couldn't perform with the Chargers and got traded after just a few years. How long of career did Brees have under Payton? Do you think Brees is a HOFer if he stayed with the Chargers? He had LT and Antonio Gates in their prime yet was traded after the Chargers thought he wasn't good enough. Could it be that Payton devised a system around the strengths of Brees predicated on getting the ball out quickly. Payton put together a solid Oline, always had a good running game. Always had a decent defense. This could mean nothing, or it may mean that Brees had Payton, not Payton had Brees.

Maybe Fitterer does know what he's doing.

Just don't buy it. If this was the case they would reschedule to a zoom meeting. The fact that both parties were prepared to travel, Payton specifically across the country means there is interest. Tepper did call Payton months ago as well. Payton knows Carolina can be a dope spot. We owned the division for 3 straight years while he was at NO. Payton also knows much of our roster inside and out. He knows that Carolina has the best potential of all the teams he has interviewed with. Even if we part with more draft capital then Denver we have a ton of cap space after this season. Payton can hand pick a veteran QB. In Denver all of his hopes rest on Russell Wilson. If Wilson craps the bed this year the Broncos will be rebuilding for half a decade. The Broncos would actually be best served the cut Wilson right now because the dead money would be spread out over two years. If they cut Wilson after the season that horrendous dead money hit will be spread over 3 years and they will have to dismantle the team. I find it hard to believe that Payton would put is legacy in the hands of Russel Wilson. We are foundationally ahead of the competition and Payton has to know this. He also holds all the power in negotiations. The Saints can send smoke signals and gaslight all they want but the reality is Payton will decide where he wants to go. The worst thing that can happen to the Saints is Payton goes back to Fox. The assets the Saints could get after two years would be in line with maybe a 3rd round pick. If Payton says to the Saints " You are trading me to the Panthers for a future first." The Saints would bitch and moan but have to oblige or they would get nothing this year and dramatically less next year.

Black helmets and logo at midfield

Better question. Are there 32 better players in the league right now? I argue yes.

I don't know if he is 19th but here you go. Mugsy Bogues. Larry Johnson. Alonzo Mourning. Baron Davis. Glenn Rice. Gerald Wallace. Al Jefferson. Kemba Walker. Miles Bridges (hate to have him here but it's true) . Terry Rozier is better then Ball. Dell Curry. Anthony Mason. I understand it's all subjective. Really Stephen Jackson was better as a hornet too. Ball is a mid tier star. Good player with no understanding how to win. Guy just jacks up shots all the time.

Fug Yes.

Excatly. We want a competitive organization. I just want to legitimately think we have a chance from time to time to win it.

I have a different opinion. Payton would easily be the highest profile coach we've ever had. Make all the Seifert comparisons you want (This is what I've read collectively from the Huddle, not you specifically.) but Payton is a young 60, in his coaching prime, and is a football genius. Love or hate him, everyone knows he's a football genius. A coach of Payton's talent is worth more then anyone player that isn't a Star QB in their prime. You want the possibility of a FA qb signing with us? Have Payton. You want a coach that truly knows how to retrofit scheme to existing talent? Bring in Payton. Really for all the bellyaching going on about Payton, it's a flat out no brainer if they can get it done. He will bring some big market attention to the team and it will give us something to be very excited about. Another thing about Payton? His teams largely had good defenses too. There is really no football reason anybody that doesn't like Payton has brought up. It's either his age, or bounty gate. Everyone can tell he isn't in decline mentally. Guy is sharp as a tack. Bounty Gate? Our turf is a bounty gate right now. Be excited a great HC is considering coming here, not some unproven 1 year OC supposed wunderkind.

If he can make Teddy Bridgewater look great then I have some faith.

When is the last time you heard a coach come right out say he didn't get the job and that's why he's coming back? It's always a prepared "I have unfinished business" or " I want to finish what I started" answer.

I know and I respect your football acumen. It's not really about what you or I want. I'm just connecting the dots. I'm fine with Wilks, I'm fine with Payton. I didn't think Johnson was ready. I don't think Steichen is ready. Payton in a known commodity and the Panthers need to win. He appears to be the safest bet out of the field of candidates.

If I was a GM looking to save my job and needed to make a splash hire to buy at least another two years I would go with Payton too. Closest you can get to a can't miss.

What happened is Sean Payton is beginning to look like our next coach. We are the best job this year. Good O-line. We're don't have a vet qb contract weighing us down. We have some defensive pieces. As crazy as Tepper is it's not the Church of Latter Day Saints like the Texans organization. It's really the logistics which is the biggest tell. Sean has been zooming with teams remotely. Tepper hasn't even interviewed any of the candidates in person. Yet here we are this week with Tepper and Payton flying out to NYC where Tepper is going to wine and dine him personally and probably slip a roofie in his drink so he can get some damning photos unless Payton takes the job.

I thought it was interesting to see his emotion. Didn't see anything horrible until the last question. Not a fan though.

Right, but there are examples of good coaches who have had success with their second team. Andy Reid went to a SB with Philly and won one with KC. Do you think had he won the SB with Philly he would have been doomed to fail in KC? Pete Carroll is another one. Got real close in New England and won one in Seattle. Look at what Doug Pederson is doing? You think he would have been a bad hire now? I truly do see where the value in statistics are. However there are some statistics that no matter how coincidental the results are, offer nothing of value. This is one of them. It's based on the individual.

I don't think Phil Snow was fired. Do you think Phil Snow would have stayed without Rhule? I don't think so.

I think it's unfair to put what happened in that game entirely on him. He isn't dealing with a staff he hired, he was coaches down on defense. He lost CMC. The team overachieved really down the stretch. As with all NFL teams, their were injuries. Out of desperation he signed JNO, but it was too little to late. I think Steve may get a raw deal even if it isn't intentional. I thought he did an exceptional job and there is no doubt he loves the Panthers.

The Seifert hire caused so much post traumatic stress that our fans actually think it's a bad idea to hire a consistently brilliant offensive coach that's won a Superbowl.

I don't care about winning it all. I just want a winning franchise. I want 5 to 7 years of stability with a real shot.

No Panthers coach has ever won a SB with the Panthers.

Payton is coaching this year. Right now he has value. Two years removed and the Saints wouldn't get near the compensation.

If he mandates to Tepper that the turf is changed then all is forgiven.